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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Another Sneak Attack Question rss

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Mike Stevens
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I opened up Khazad-Dum and 2 new adventure packs; Redhorn Gate and Road to Rivendell late last night and decided to try to throw a quick deck together focusing on Dwarves. I grabbed Dain Ironfoot, Dwalin, and Beravor for my Heroes. So I was throwing a 3 sphere deck together focusing on Lore, Spirit, and Leadership. I was adding cards I liked from the core set as well as several expansions from the Mirkwood cycle. Once I got my deck to the table, I counted the cards and realized I only had 57 cards, so without thinking I grabbed 3 copies of Veteran of Nanduhirion from the Khazad-Dum box and added him to my deck. NO, I clearly didnt notice the bright red TACTICS symbol next to his nameshakeshake

Into my deck he went and I was off to take on the 7th Level. Things started pretty good as I got several cheap Dwarf allies into play and I had attached the Book of Mazradal to Beravor so he could quest without exhauasting and then be available to Defend or to let me draw 2 cards if needed. Dain Ironfoot was giving all my dwarves +1 willpower, so questing was going well. Goblin Spearmen and Archers started showing up in the staging area. I had 2 Sneak Attacks and 2 Veterans of Nanduhirion in my hand. This was the first time that I noticed that they were from the Tactics sphere. I had no attachements that gave any of my Heroes the Tactics symbol so here is my question:

Can I bring the Veterans of Nanduhirion into play by paying for Sneak Attack since Sneak Attack is from the Leadership sphere? I could pay for them with Dain Ironfoots resources.

One more question while I have your attention. 2 Goblin Archers came out pretty early and since they are 48 and my threat was only around 34 at the time, it would be quite awhile until I could engage them. I didnt have any characters with Range in my deck. Is there some easy way to get them out of the Staging Area that I dont know about? Thanks for yor help with these questions.
 
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David Moeller
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Sneak Attack can bring in any sphere (or neutral) character into play.
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David Moeller
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As per the Goblin Snipers, if two are out, neither may be optionally engaged. That leaves cards like Dunhere or Gandalf or some other cards which can put damage on enemies in staging.

And, FWIW, ranged characters would not help with Goblin Snipers as they cannot engage enemies in staging. Their special ability is to attack enemies engaged with other players.
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Uncle Potato
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From the FAQ:

Q: Can a player have cards in his player deck from a sphere that doesn’t match the sphere of one of his heroes?

A: There is nothing in the rules that disallows this, although a player will need to find clever card interactions to make use of such cards.

I think using Sneak Attack for this purpose would be perfectly legal.

Not sure about your second question.
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Chris Corbin
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Omahavice wrote:
...I counted the cards and realized I only had 57 cards


is this a typo or did you really play a 60 card deck? 50 is the minimum. aside from that, Dunhere and Gandalf were already mentioned, plus there is Descendant of Thorondor and I think a new card in Road to Rivendell Hail of Stones.

oh and Beorning Beekeeper and Boromir
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David Moeller
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theduke850 wrote:
Omahavice wrote:
...I counted the cards and realized I only had 57 cards


is this a typo or did you really play a 60 card deck? 50 is the minimum. aside from that, Dunhere and Gandalf were already mentioned, plus there is Descendant of Thorondor and I think a new card in Road to Rivendell Hail of Stones.

oh and Beorning Beekeeper and Boromir


FWIW, 50 is the minimum size only if you are playing a tournament deck. Decks below 50 are perfectly legal otherwise.
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Mike Stevens
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theduke850 wrote:
Omahavice wrote:
...I counted the cards and realized I only had 57 cards


is this a typo or did you really play a 60 card deck? 50 is the minimum. aside from that, Dunhere and Gandalf were already mentioned, plus there is Descendant of Thorondor and I think a new card in Road to Rivendell Hail of Stones.

oh and Beorning Beekeeper and Boromir


Yes I made a 60 card deck. Do most people play with 50 card decks? Shortly after I made the post I drew Gandalf twice and in 2 rounds was able to kill the Goblin Archers and get enough questing tokens to finish the quest. It wasnt easy as 2 of my heroes ended up with Watchful Eyes attached to them.

Thanks to everyone who posted answers and suggestions. I love this game.
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Chris Corbin
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typically the fewer cards in a deck the more efficient and consistent it is because it will have better probabilities for drawing the cards you need when you need them. Imagine 3 Stewards of Gondor in a 30 card deck vs. a 60 card deck. that is why the the rules give a minimum deck size and not a maximum deck size under the tournament rules. FWIW if you're not playing by the tournament rules, you'd do better to play with a smaller deck, not a bigger one.
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John Steinbach
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Omahavice wrote:

[/b]One more question while I have your attention. 2 Goblin Archers came out pretty early and since they are 48 and my threat was only around 34 at the time, it would be quite awhile until I could engage them. I didnt have any characters with Range in my deck. Is there some easy way to get them out of the Staging Area that I dont know about? Thanks for yor help with these questions.

Aside from Gandalf, the Spirit hero Dunhere can attack enemies in the staging area (although he'll need an attack boost to crack the Archers' defenses). Beorning Beekeeper and Descendant of Thorondor can kill the goblins, as will Thalin if they are revealed while he is committed to the quest.
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Tom Howard
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Another way to get those Snipers out of the staging area is by playing Son of Arnor.

Response: After Son of Arnor enters play, choose an enemy card in the staging area or currently engaged with another player. Engage that enemy.
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Sander Engels
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theduke850 wrote:
oh [...] and Boromir


Boromir can only damage enemies engaged with a player, so he can't damage any Goblin Archers (or Snipers).

There are indeed many options to clear them, but one I haven't seen mentioned yet is the Lore event Infighting.
 
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Chris Corbin
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Seen wrote:
theduke850 wrote:
oh [...] and Boromir


Boromir can only damage enemies engaged with a player, so he can't damage any Goblin Archers (or Snipers).


quite right, my mistake
 
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Håkon Skappel
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david_1214 wrote:
And, FWIW, ranged characters would not help with Goblin Snipers as they cannot engage enemies in staging. Their special ability is to attack enemies engaged with other players.


He's talking about Goblin Archers from the Plundering Goblins set. They cannot be optionally engaged at all (leaving engagement checks and card abilities that engage the only way to get them out of the staging area).

Also, these creatures have the card rule that allows ranged characters to attack them while in the staging area, which in this specific case overrules the general rule (just like Dunhere does).
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Rory Mannix
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I would also thrown in Longbeard Orc slayer, he can put some damage on there and can also help with questing/attack especially if you Dain in there. I was never a fan of Longbeard Orc Slayer, pretty high cost for an ally with his stats but now with all the sweet dwarf cards and combos I find them in there more and more.
 
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Mike Stevens
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sciurusaurus wrote:
david_1214 wrote:
And, FWIW, ranged characters would not help with Goblin Snipers as they cannot engage enemies in staging. Their special ability is to attack enemies engaged with other players.


He's talking about Goblin Archers from the Plundering Goblins set. They cannot be optionally engaged at all (leaving engagement checks and card abilities that engage the only way to get them out of the staging area).

Also, these creatures have the card rule that allows ranged characters to attack them while in the staging area, which in this specific case overrules the general rule (just like Dunhere does).


So any card ability that allows me to Engage enemies in the Staging area would over ride the Goblin Archer text that says "players may not Optionally Engage Goblin Archers"?
 
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Uncle Potato
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The answer to your questions is yes, because engaging is not the same as attacking. When you attack an enemy in the staging area through Dunhére's ability or through the ranged ability, you are not engaging it.
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Andy Mills
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Also, Son of Arnor's response isn't "optionally engaging" - if you trigger the response, you engage an enemy.

Optional engagement refers to the thing that players do at the beginning of the engagement phase.
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