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Subject: do all your senators automatically vote in favor of your vote? rss

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This came up my first game, apologies if it's in the rules and I just can't find it.

A three person committee with two senators from person A and one from from person B. Can A make a deal with B such that he 'needs' person B's votes in order to force the 'bank' to issue person B a (I) laurel?

This would imply the two senators of A are voting against each other.

This seemed odd and incorrect, but player A was incented to do this as part of a 'larger' deal in the works.

I couldn't find anything that specifically prevented this.

-hb
 
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J C Lawrence
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Yes, this is a standard tactic.
 
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bgghb wrote:
This came up my first game, apologies if it's in the rules and I just can't find it.

A three person committee with two senators from person A and one from from person B. Can A make a deal with B such that he 'needs' person B's votes in order to force the 'bank' to issue person B a (I) laurel?

This would imply the two senators of A are voting against each other.

This seemed odd and incorrect, but player A was incented to do this as part of a 'larger' deal in the works.

I couldn't find anything that specifically prevented this.

-hb
clearclaw wrote:
Yes, this is a standard tactic.


For this example, I remember and will reply that pB can't contribute majority vote in a chamber with 2 pA's pawns, but only 1 of pB.

I'll cite the ref in the rules if I can get back to this thread.
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You only are allowed to accept the votes you NEED. For example, if you need 1 vote and two players vote for you, you are only allowed to accept one of them, and it is that one who is payed.

So in your example you cannot accept B's vote, since you don't need it. If you could, in a 3-senator committee with you and two other players you could say that your senator is not voting and that you accept votes from both players, so that both get paid...

Pay him 1 laurel from your stock in another deal, but do not use the bank.
 
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franchi wrote:
You only are allowed to accept the votes you NEED. For example, if you need 1 vote and two players vote for you, you are only allowed to accept one of them, and it is that one who is payed.

So in your example you cannot accept B's vote, since you don't need it. If you could, in a 3-senator committee with you and two other players you could say that your senator is not voting and that you accept votes from both players, so that both get paid...

Pay him 1 laurel from your stock in another deal, but do not use the bank.
I'll have to double check on this too, as I remember if you can gain whatever enough votes on your own, then you need to use those votes first before asking others and giving them the I VP chips.
 
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J C Lawrence
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The standard case is ala:

-- You need one votes to move up.
-- PlayerX offers you one vote for an agreeable price.
-- PlayerY offers you two votes for an acceptable price.

You may accept PlayerX's offer and then accept PlayerY's offer in order to move up. It is possible in doing so that you negotiate a lower price for PlayerY's single vote instead of his double vote, or you may have other reasons for declaring his two-vote price unreasonable but accepting his one vote price. Usually this comes down to scoring positions and sowing positional contention among the other players.

FWLIW this sort of negotiation was de rigueur in my last game. Four players were already in the senate and there was one seat left. If I managed to get into the senate I'd win as I already had far more points (almost 20 more) than any other single player. The problem was how to lock me out without also giving the game to someone else, and thus the negotiations were also ever-so-detailed and multi-party as the group already in the senate incrementally leveled their positions while also not giving anybody too much of an advantage...and of course I was giving away points freely all the while, unbalancing their careful negotiations and posititionings as I moved on up toward the senate seat.

ObNote: As scores are fully trackable, we play with open scoring.
 
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Paulo Santoro
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Scores aren't necessarily fully trackable. One can make an offer to another player by only showing him, secretly, a VP token. If the offer is accepted, no other player will know the score of players involved. In fact, we play hidden and sometimes this kind of thing occurs.
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PauloSantoro wrote:
Scores aren't necessarily fully trackable. One can make an offer to another player by only showing him, secretly, a VP token. If the offer is accepted, no other player will know the score of players involved. In fact, we play hidden and sometimes this kind of thing occurs.
If nothing else, none have had "photographic memories", so the uncertainty is definitely there among those groups.
 
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This feels "right" to me.

Even in a game that is meant to have free flowing negotiation, it felt wrong (and a bit inflationary) to wring that token from the bank when it wasn't 'needed'.

Thanks for the fast response and collective wisdom!
 
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[re secret 'deals']

This is great, can't wait to try this tactic.
I'm not sure why we assumed all deals were 'open'.
 
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