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Subject: Loads of questions here...feels FFGish.. rss

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Manuel Ingeland
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When will the first errata/FAQ be available? Haven't played the game yet, but all these questions give me a stomach ache!
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Sean M
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There's the Wizards official FAQ in the Web Links section here on BGG's item entry for the game. It's really short though, hopefully they'll add more content there soon.
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James W
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There's no need to panic.

Most of the rule discussions so far have been resolved by careful reading. As long as you don't try to impose what you hope something means and just actually read the text literally, then you'll be fine.

Maybe a situation will come up soon that warrants a lot of discussion due to a vague rule, but nothing serious has so far.
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Manuel Ingeland
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The official one is short, yes...yeah, I'm hoping..
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Sean M
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kingjames01 wrote:
There's no need to panic.


Douglas Adams would be proud.
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Matthew Saloff
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kingjames01 wrote:
Most of the rule discussions so far have been resolved by careful reading. As long as you don't try to impose what you hope something means and just actually read the text literally, then you'll be fine.


Like the 'can you build more than 10 buildings' ruling? Cause that's like the exact opposite of how the rules text reads literally...
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Greg Whitfield
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I havent had a problem with the rules that a thorough reading of the rulebook doesnt clear up. The wording in a rulebook is important.
 
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William Cunningham
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Other than the aforementioned wording on the building limit being a bit dodgy, the rules have been surprisingly controversy free. I love how easy this game is to teach and play.
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James W
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Mattr0polis wrote:
kingjames01 wrote:
Most of the rule discussions so far have been resolved by careful reading. As long as you don't try to impose what you hope something means and just actually read the text literally, then you'll be fine.


Like the 'can you build more than 10 buildings' ruling? Cause that's like the exact opposite of how the rules text reads literally...


I said "most", not "all".

Also, Mattr0polis, apparently, you should read the next sentence too.

As long as you don't try to impose what you hope something means and just actually read the text literally, then you'll be fine.
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Matthew Saloff
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kingjames01 wrote:

I said "most", not "all".

Also, Mattr0polis, apparently, you should read the next sentence too.

As long as you don't try to impose what you hope something means and just actually read the text literally, then you'll be fine.


LoW Rulebook, Page 9 wrote:
Whenever you assign an Agent to Builder’s Hall, choose one of the face-up Buildings available for purchase and pay its Gold cost. You immediately score any VP for that Building and place its tile in one of the open spots on the board.


Tell me how that sentence in the rulebook is me imposing anything on the rules instead of me reading it literally. The ruling from WotC directly contradicts the literal text. Period.

And I wasn't trying to call you out, so no reason to take it like that unless you really want to. I'm just saying to you and the OP, that no, you can not just take the literal text for what it says sometimes, apparently. That's what I did with the building limit rule and a few other questions and have been wrong. And not from "hoping" that it worked a certain way. The only thing I'm "hoping" for is to play the game correctly.

The rules are far from perfect here as has already been made clear by a few of the questions that keep arising. It doesn't mean that the game is bad, just that the rules are not perfect or always "resolved by careful reading".
 
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S Marstiller
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magneheeli wrote:
When will the first errata/FAQ be available? Haven't played the game yet, but all these questions give me a stomach ache!


The building spaces question was the ONLY question I had. That hardly necessitates a thread worried about "loads" of questions or comparing this rulebook to an FFG rulebook or claiming "all these questions give me a stomach ache!"

This game is 100% playable with the current rulebook.
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James W
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Mattr0polis wrote:
kingjames01 wrote:

I said "most", not "all".

Also, Mattr0polis, apparently, you should read the next sentence too.

As long as you don't try to impose what you hope something means and just actually read the text literally, then you'll be fine.


LoW Rulebook, Page 9 wrote:
Whenever you assign an Agent to Builder’s Hall, choose one of the face-up Buildings available for purchase and pay its Gold cost. You immediately score any VP for that Building and place its tile in one of the open spots on the board.


Tell me how that sentence in the rulebook is me imposing anything on the rules instead of me reading it literally. The ruling from WotC directly contradicts the literal text. Period.

And I wasn't trying to call you out, so no reason to take it like that unless you really want to. I'm just saying to you and the OP, that no, you can not just take the literal text for what it says sometimes, apparently. That's what I did with the building limit rule and a few other questions and have been wrong. And not from "hoping" that it worked a certain way. The only thing I'm "hoping" for is to play the game correctly.

The rules are far from perfect here as has already been made clear by a few of the questions that keep arising. It doesn't mean that the game is bad, just that the rules are not perfect or always "resolved by careful reading".


So we, in fact, agree. I said most of the rule-based discussions have been resolved with careful reading.

That exception that you referred to is one of the few where it has not been true.


As for the second part, I was merely pointing out the irony in what you did. You did not literally read what I wrote and applied a different interpretation of it while quoting the part where I suggested reading the text literally rather than taking your own interpretation.

I said "most" and then you proceeded to find an exception. One counter-example out of many instances still allows the use of the word "most."

Ironic? =) I thought so.
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Kris Rhodes
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The rules as written imply that there is always an open building space on the board. There's nothing wrong with this, so long as you understand "board" broadly.
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Brian Jones
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magneheeli wrote:
When will the first errata/FAQ be available? Haven't played the game yet, but all these questions give me a stomach ache!


I was pleasantly surprised that the rules for the game are quite good. There are very few questions worthy of a FAQ, and hopefully there will be no errata.

These rules are actually better than some of the Euros from Rio Grande, never mind FFG. Egizia and Macao, I'm looking at you.
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Matthew Saloff
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kingjames01 wrote:
Ironic? =) I thought so.


So I guess you do want to take it that way...

So just curious, how would you rule these other questions then since we can know "most" of the answers by just using careful reading and the building limit one is the exception? I'll keep them handy for when WotC rules them oppositely:

1.) We now know we as a group can build more than 10 buildings, but can I personally build more than 9 buildings since I only have 9 Control Markers? The rulebook literally says to "Place one of your control markers on that tile to show you are the owner." so I would think no. However, the building limit ruling now makes me think this will be ruled otherwise.

2.) If I use the 'Real Estate' Intrigue card, do I get the VP tokens that are on the building that I chose? The rulebook literally says "Whenever you assign an Agent to Builder’s Hall, choose one of the face-up Buildings available for purchase and pay its Gold cost. You immediately score any VP for that Building". I would think no, since I have not literally assigned an Agent to Builder's Hall. But then again, maybe the rules are just saying that since they're only describing the normal way of placing buildings.

Again, these do not make the game unplayable, in fact the game is really fun. But the rules are not perfect.

And lighten up, it's the internet. ^_^
 
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Manuel Ingeland
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The aggressive tone on some sides here gives me another stomach ache. Is that really necessary?
The existence of different opinions here justifies the thread. Well done!
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Kris Rhodes
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Mattr0polis wrote:


And lighten up, it's the internet. ^_^


You're?

Telling him?

To lighten up??

Wow projection.

Also: This is the second post in which you've ascribed to him a view that "the rulebook is perfect." Yet he does not have that view, and has explicitly denied that it is true.

As far as I can tell, you're debating only yourself, while typing words that have the form of debate with a second person.
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Matthew Saloff
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Chris Miller
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Mattr0polis wrote:

2.) If I use the 'Real Estate' Intrigue card, do I get the VP tokens that are on the building that I chose? The rulebook literally says "Whenever you assign an Agent to Builder’s Hall, choose one of the face-up Buildings available for purchase and pay its Gold cost. You immediately score any VP for that Building". I would think no, since I have not literally assigned an Agent to Builder's Hall. But then again, maybe the rules are just saying that since they're only describing the normal way of placing buildings.


I'm going with your latter statement about the rules describing the normal way of placing buildings. Notice how the rules DO NOT state "Only when you assign an Agent to the Builders's Hall..." but rather "Whenever you assign an Agent to the Builder's Hall..." The rules describes the standard way of doing business.

The actual normal actions are:
1. Placing an agent at the Builder's Hall
2. Selecting a building
3. Paying it's cost

The results of the actions are:
1. Score any VPs on the building
2. Place building title
3. Place a control marker
4. Draw a new building title

Real Estate Deal allows the player to get out of the agent and cost components of the normal action by discarding a building. The results are still the same.
 
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Matthew Saloff
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Yeah, I honestly would have agreed with you, Chris, and that is how we played it.

They just updated the FAQ though here and that is not the correct way however: http://wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2233

Same with the Control Marker question, which seems opposite to the ruling on building limits for some reason.

This is mainly what I was arguing about with the rules. Oh well. Still a fun game.
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Chris Miller
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Matt,

Are we talking past each other? The FAQ states "However, if you put a Building into play under your control from Builder's Hall and that Building has any Victory Point tokens on it, you gain those Victory Points regardless of whether you purchased it or simply put it in play." So Real Estate Deal does net you the VPs on the building.
 
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Chris Franka
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TheWanderingMiller wrote:
Matt,

Are we talking past each other? The FAQ states "However, if you put a Building into play under your control from Builder's Hall and that Building has any Victory Point tokens on it, you gain those Victory Points regardless of whether you purchased it or simply put it in play." So Real Estate Deal does net you the VPs on the building.


I was waiting on this one question, and I'm glad they answered it. It wasn't in the FAQ before, so it must have been part of their FAQ update.
 
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Matthew Saloff
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TheWanderingMiller wrote:
Matt,

Are we talking past each other? The FAQ states "However, if you put a Building into play under your control from Builder's Hall and that Building has any Victory Point tokens on it, you gain those Victory Points regardless of whether you purchased it or simply put it in play." So Real Estate Deal does net you the VPs on the building. ;)


Oh wow, yeah, I don't think that sentence was there before, so they must have updated it again. Thanks for pointing this out.

Definitely the better ruling on this imo.
 
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