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Subject: Should I buy this if I don't like Memoir'44 rss

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Lawrence Hung
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Wan Chai
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With the recent release of the Tide of Iron: Fury of the Bear, I am very tempted to look at this series and the base game seriously. However, I feel hallowed and fluffy when I played Memoir '44, whatever the scenarios, base game or expansions. Should I buy Tide of Iron just because of its shiny names of the scenario designers? Is there something you can get out of the base system? Are the toy soldiers good or bad for the game system, meaning are they taking more out of the game or diminish the level of suspense of disbelief? After all, the series is expensive to own.
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Larry Thorne

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I wouldn't buy this series based on Fury of the Bear. It's the weakest of all in the series.
Play the base game. Find a couple of friends and see if you want to invest the time and effort. It's by far more complete than Memoir but Memoir 44 has that quick setup and play play play effect for me. Lighter and more appealing to my gaming friends.
Just my 2 cents.

I own both complete game series.
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Tanks Alot
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Its deeper than memoir 44. Lots of good stuff like op fire, double range fire, close range fire. If you dont like the setup of Memoir 44 you wont like the setup of this, but you are able to set up squads the way you like.

As units are reduced their firepower decreases.. this is nice

You can order units anywhere on the board. Typically you order 3 units and fatique them, then you opponent does the same, then you do 3, and this goes back and forth til all the units are used up. Then its the end of turn, you use your points to buy initiative, cards, whatever, the turn is reset and all units markers are cleared.

You can have a squad that is all elites, or 2 standard inf and 2 elites. A mortar team, with an infantry, and a a leader. Your choice!

The game is a lot of fun. To me it plays more like a video game in feel than any game I have played. The minis are fun, the paying just feels cool. Lots of moving in cover, and great scenarios (like the one where you save the leader)

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clive holland
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If I lost my copies due to the wife throwing them out, the dog eating them or some other such reason, would I go out and buy them again. YES without doubt. It is a great game and the replayability is endless.

The rules are simple to learn, but with the strategy cards and commnad points you can play the same scenario many times.

Fury and the Bear was a big letdown for me, but I am fortunate that a friend has come up with with 3 scenarios so far and all beat the hell out of the scenarios in the expansion.

I have played over 50 games by now and love it. It is ideal to play over Skype which is a big bonus for me as I live out in the boonies.
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Ingo Ahrens
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I personally hate M44, but love ToI, so...
 
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Peter Hutchinson
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I have only once dabbled in memoir '44 in the distant past and have little memory of it.
I have all the TOI games/expansions and the designer scenarios book.
If I have the time my preference is more hard core wargames such as the OCS series. However I seldom have that much time!

TOI therefore fills a niche for me: it looks good, plays OK, has a good deal of variety now with the expansions and large number of scenarios, is not too complex, but has enough "chrome" to offer some reasonably challenging and meaningful tactical decisions and can be played in a night or few hours depending on your scenario.

I would therefore recommend it as worthy of inclusion in your collection.

If I were to recommend an expansion it would be either Normandy or the Fox depending on your theatre of interest; and I would highly recommend the designer scenario book which offers a good range of scenarios based around the base set and the Fox expansion.

Enjoy.
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René Christensen
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I got both M44 and ToI.
Bought so too many expansions for M44 that I don't know where to start. I only play basic or Overlord scenarios.
Tried to read the rules for ToI but it just doesn't catch me the same way M44 did, so I've never played it.
 
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Tanks Alot
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Slotracer wrote:
I got both M44 and ToI.
Bought so too many expansions for M44 that I don't no where to start. I only play basic or Overlord scenarios.
Tried to read the rules for ToI but it just doesn't catch me the same way M44 did, so I've never played it.


I had a hard time starting with TOI at first too, but the game is actually pretty simple. When you read the rules the first time dont try and learn everything, just basic movement and firing, then explore your options.
Its too bad the designers didnt consider a good example of play or a very light recon type scenario to help new players. The options of all the different things are nice to have once you learn the game but I can see them being overwhelming at first.

I am tempted to make a scenario of 2 squads attacking a heavy maching gun in op fore mode in solo mode. Would definitely be enough for most players to get the toughest part of the game, getting started!!!

I have played over 100 games of Memoir 44, and the two games are noting alike. Both have plastic minis and hexes but thats as far as it goes

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Giannis Chorinos
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I think TOI is almost a simulator of WW2 battlefield with simple and reasonable rules. After two or three plays you can remember all rules of main game and then you can add new parts from expansions. I have TOI six month now, I play about two plays every week and I'm very addicted with this game. I don't ever play memoir 44 but TOI isn't boring game. I think TOI is very balanced game between fun(not so hard gameplay) and complexity(not so simple gameplay).
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John Di Ponio
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I own both and find myself never touching Mem44. ToI just grabs my interest more. I like the rules, the strategies and the way the game plays. There is more meat than Mem44 but not too much to drive me nuts.
The figures are nice but not the selling point of the game for me. What is nice with the figures is the way you can configure your squads and the specialties you can assign to it like a flamethrower, medic or engineer. My kids play mem44 so it will stay in the collection until it is not played anymore.

I suggest trying to trade for the base game or buy it from a geek. There are plenty out there and you would not have to play full price.
 
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john f stup
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i prefer Tide to MM'44 and the Fox expansion adds a lot.
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Bob Gibson
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It would probably help to know what wargames you like, because I suspect that those who like M44, for example, don't like heavy counter wargames, and visa-versa. ToI is somewhat of a step up from M44 in complexity. Thus, IMO, it offers a bit more in the way of field tactics.

For me, I love and play all wargames. I also love moving mini's around the board. I have all of the M44 expansions, half of the ToI expansions, and really enjoy PoG style CDG's (i.e. For the People, Paths of Glory, Shifting Sands, etc). With this range of wargaming, it gives me the option to play a light quick game of Memoir, invest roughly two to four "Memoir's" of time to play ToI, or spend a day (or more) with PoG. However, that's just me and I sense that most wargamers don't like wargames that are too complicated or too light.

Again, it's significant to know what wargames you currently play.
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Tanks Alot
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His profile shows he likes light games as well as heavy
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/Lawrence%20Hung...

So I think he would like it, if he was looking for a lighter game (Based on his games he has played before), and Im not saying this is a light game, but I think he would have no trouble with the rules
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René Christensen
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charlescab wrote:
Its too bad the designers didnt consider a good example of play or a very light recon type scenario to help new players. The options of all the different things are nice to have once you learn the game but I can see them being overwhelming at first.

Well, if anyone would make such an intro to the game, perhpas more peolpe would get into it.
 
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Chris Hillery
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Lots of people have replied saying how much they enjoy the game (I do too). In general I'd say it's well worth owning. But, I'll try to directly answer the questions you asked:

Lawrence Hung wrote:
With the recent release of the Tide of Iron: Fury of the Bear, I am very tempted to look at this series and the base game seriously. However, I feel hallowed and fluffy when I played Memoir '44, whatever the scenarios, base game or expansions.

IMHO, Memoir '44 and Tide of Iron are really not very similar. Other than the theme, and the idea of rolling dice to attack, they have very little in common. I enjoy them both, but I agree that M44 can sometimes feel a little "fluffy". I would actually say that when I'm playing M44, I never forget that I am playing a game - my decisions are chiefly driven by operating the rules and optimizing my current position. On the other hand, with Tide of Iron, I feel like I'm commanding troops in battle to do specific things, and the decisions are made based on trying to achieve my objectives rather than thinking about the game mechanics. As I said, I enjoy both, but I feel M44 is a game in the more mathematical sense of the word, where Tide of Iron is a game in the "oh wow this is fun!" sense.

Quote:
Should I buy Tide of Iron just because of its shiny names of the scenario designers?

No, if that's the only thing attracting you, I'd say not. The biggest weak spot in the Tide of Iron universe are the included scenarios. Some of the Big Name Designer scenarios in the separate Designer Series scenario book are quite good, but not all.

Quote:
Is there something you can get out of the base system?

Absolutely. There is more than enough in the base set to keep you happily gaming for years. The expansions add more unit types and some additional rules, but they don't fundamentally change the game. Again, the only problem with the base set is the included scenarios - plan to download some from the internet, and spend a little time researching which ones are considered the best, if you really want to get the most out of the game.

Quote:
Are the toy soldiers good or bad for the game system, meaning are they taking more out of the game or diminish the level of suspense of disbelief?

I'd say for the most part they are good. It makes it easier to see the strength and (to some degree) the composition of your forces quickly. They are a little harder to set up than single chits would be, and a little harder to store, but on the whole they're a plus.

Quote:
After all, the series is expensive to own.

Indeed - I wouldn't start by buying the whole thing, for sure. Get the base set, and maybe the Designers Series scenario book (which should at least be cheaper to ship). If you play a few scenarios and like it, consider adding Days of the Fox - I think it's the best expansion because it adds some simple but significant new units, and also because some of the scenarios in the Designer Series book use it.

And, for sure, ask questions here!

Hope that helps!
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jim washer
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Excellent reply Chris.
 
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A.T. Selvaggio
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charlescab wrote:
Slotracer wrote:
I got both M44 and ToI.
Bought so too many expansions for M44 that I don't no where to start. I only play basic or Overlord scenarios.
Tried to read the rules for ToI but it just doesn't catch me the same way M44 did, so I've never played it.


I had a hard time starting with TOI at first too, but the game is actually pretty simple. When you read the rules the first time dont try and learn everything, just basic movement and firing, then explore your options.
Its too bad the designers didnt consider a good example of play or a very light recon type scenario to help new players. The options of all the different things are nice to have once you learn the game but I can see them being overwhelming at first.

I am tempted to make a scenario of 2 squads attacking a heavy maching gun in op fore mode in solo mode. Would definitely be enough for most players to get the toughest part of the game, getting started!!!

I have played over 100 games of Memoir 44, and the two games are noting alike. Both have plastic minis and hexes but thats as far as it goes



I learned the game with a special intro scenario located here:
http://app.fantasyflightgames.com/cgi-bin/quests/quest.cgi?c...

Just download. Very helpful.
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Jason Kenney
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charlescab wrote:
[q="Slotracer"]I am tempted to make a scenario of 2 squads attacking a heavy maching gun in op fore mode in solo mode. Would definitely be enough for most players to get the toughest part of the game, getting started!!!


Would love to see this. Recently picked up ToI on a recommendation from a friend (scratch & dent for $50) and am looking for the best way to start.
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks A.T.
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