Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Recommendations

Subject: Battles of Westeros or C&C: Ancients rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dan D
Romania
Bucharest
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In short I am looking for a not very fiddly or long 1v1 tactical game.

Ideally it would have:

- Short setup and playtime
- Campaign system
- Nice bits
- Strategy beats luck (of draw or dice)
- Meaningful decisions each turn, but short downtime
- Interesting background theme
- Somewhat portable

Now on to what I like and don't about these 2 systems.

C&C:A

+ it has a nice realistic theme
+ the wooden bits look cool
+ lots of support from the players with tons of extra scenarios to try
+ seems to go quite fast without much downtime
+ not very fiddly past the initial stickering
+ it has tons of expansions

- it uses a pretty old system for tactical combat (d6, L C R)
- luck seems like it can screw you out of winning a battle
- storage and weight can be a problem for transportation and setup
- no plastic mini
- many special rules for the infantry on PAC

BoW

+ like the theme even more
+ plastic minis beat wooden blocks
+ FFG means a lot of expansions
+ the somewhat improved combat system (d8, zone command, flanking, etc)

- dislike the banner activation thing that seems awfully fiddly to me
- gluing the bases on minis is worse than stickering cubes
- plastic bends
- rules might be written more poorly than C&C:A
- less scenarios available at this time

0 only 2 factions at the present time compared to C&C:A

So that being said, what do you guys recommend? PS: I am not interested in things like Earth Reborn or Claustrophobia. I already got Tannhauser and I am pretty happy with it, but I am looking for the next tactical-wargame-money-sink. Both C&C:A and BoW will take roughly 200-300$ to get everything to date and I am really torn between them. Help a fellow geek out!

Also, you can check my geeklist or ratings so you can get a better idea or what tickles my sweet spot.

TL;DR:
Poll: Vote your option
Battles of Westeros or C&C: Ancients?
BoW
C&C:A
Neither, check my comment below
      41 answers
Poll created by imba19
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan D
Romania
Bucharest
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I appreciate the votes, but I would love to read some comments about the pros and cons I found (are they real, are they that bad/god?) and people's opinions of why one would be better than the other, especially from those who tried them both.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
BrentS
Australia
Sydney
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've answered you here rather than in the C&C:A forum to address some of the specific concerns you've voiced. I haven't played BoW but I can highly recommend C&C:A and there are some slight misconceptions you may want to take into consideration when you're making your decision.

imba19 wrote:


Ideally it would have:

- Strategy beats luck (of draw or dice)

Now on to what I like and don't about these 2 systems.

C&C:A

- luck seems like it can screw you out of winning a battle




C&C:A is a highly strategic game. In any game with dice, including C&C:A and BoW, you are subject to fate and can lose games you feel you should have won. All I can say is that skill and experience play a far greater role in C&C:A than luck.


Quote:
- it uses a pretty old system for tactical combat (d6, L C R)


I'm not sure how a 6 vs 8 sided die makes a great difference....I understand that in BoW the extra two faces are more greens, not a broader variety of combat results. I actually think the L-C-R mechanic is one of the core features that makes C&C:A special and have written a strategy article to explain why here.

Quote:
- no plastic mini


For ease of storage and handling on the board I think you will find many people prefer the blocks. They can look pretty good when set up, too, particularly in Epic, and don't do a bad job of giving the feel of massed ranks of soldiers.

Quote:
- many special rules for the infantry on PAC


I'm sorry , I didn't quite understand what PAC meant. The varying unit characteristics and mixed arms are what give C&C:A much of its tactical tread. After a play or two they become very easy to remember.

I'm sure you'll get a very enjoyable game out of either but I can recommend C&C:A highly. One option is to get the base game of each, find out which you like from experience before diving into the whole system.

Brent.
2 
 Thumb up
1.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan D
Romania
Bucharest
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PAC = Player Aid Card. Thank you for your reply!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Boeren
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
These two games use two different systems for combat. I'm not sure you can say that one is more advanced than the other, they simply produce a different feel and you may prefer one feel over the other. Also, part of the "improved" system is the banner activation which you say you don't like. So is it really improved for you?

How does luck screw you out of winning a battle? In nearly all cases, if you end up in a situation where you vitally need a certain card then you've put yourself in a bad position with earlier moves. Play to your strengths, mitigate your weaknesses, and you're far less likely to get caught with your pants down. As long as you can mitigate this to being no more random than the combat die rolls (which seem to be accepted without question) then I'd say it's OK.

You say that one of the benefits of BoW is "FFG means a lot of expansions" but CCA actually has more expansions, plus more fan created scenarios and extras. I'm not sure this is a real benefit.


Are you also looking at Command & Colors: Napoleonics or the upcoming Samurai Battles? Or are you just not a fan of these settings? Or don't want to wait for more expansions maybe?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan D
Romania
Bucharest
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just Samurai Battles caught my eye. Napoleonics is not a period I admire. Though SB looks cool, the assembly of the figures might be a bit too much for me...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vlad Balica
Romania
Bucuresti
Bucuresti
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey Imba, my 2 cents: instead of spending 2-300 bucks to buy one of these + all expansions, I would get 3-4-5 wargames, to experience different systems and, eventually, different historical periods.

You might want to take a look at Sekigahara: The Unification of Japan, Hellenes: Campaigns of the Peloponnesian War, Julius Caesar (or other Columbia block wargame, as they all seem not too fiddly), in case you haven't already (because I know you usually research games thoroughly before buying ).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Price
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Member of the San Francisco Game Group since 2005
badge
This is a customized Bane Tower from the game Man o' War
Avatar
mb
imba19 wrote:
Just Samurai Battles caught my eye. Napoleonics is not a period I admire. Though SB looks cool, the assembly of the figures might be a bit too much for me...


The nice thing about the new Zvezda title is the quality of the minis: assembly will not require glue (I have a bunch of their minis, and have been very impressed), just time. They're all computer designed, and the precision with which they're made is quite nice.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Boeren
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tasurinchi wrote:
Hey Imba, my 2 cents: instead of spending 2-300 bucks to buy one of these + all expansions, I would get 3-4-5 wargames, to experience different systems and, eventually, different historical periods.

You might want to take a look at Sekigahara: The Unification of Japan, Hellenes: Campaigns of the Peloponnesian War, Julius Caesar (or other Columbia block wargame, as they all seem not too fiddly), in case you haven't already (because I know you usually research games thoroughly before buying ).


That's a thought. I've played Sekigahara and thought it was pretty good, plus it would go well thematically with Samurai Battles. I haven't done Julius Caesar, but I've played Hammer of the Scots (another one of the Columbia block games) and liked that. If you're not set on historical themes, I'd suggest looking at War of the Ring as well, this has been one of my most played games lately since picking up the new 2nd Edition.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan D
Romania
Bucharest
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mattprice wrote:
The nice thing about the new Zvezda title is the quality of the minis: assembly will not require glue (I have a bunch of their minis, and have been very impressed), just time. They're all computer designed, and the precision with which they're made is quite nice.


What do you mean no glue? This is awesome! I thought all sprued miniatures required clippers/xacto to take off the sprues, glue to stick the figures together and a touch of paint to make them look good. If the glue thing is out of the question, this could very well be my cash sink.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan D
Romania
Bucharest
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tasurinchi wrote:
Hey Imba, my 2 cents: instead of spending 2-300 bucks to buy one of these + all expansions, I would get 3-4-5 wargames, to experience different systems and, eventually, different historical periods.


Well, you know once I get into something I tend to buy every and any expansion available. So I would very much rather that it is a nice expendable system than different games (and different rulebooks as well). Plus, all these periods sound nice (ancients, medieval AGoT and Samurai) so theme wise I could get into any of them. WHat I could not do is get into all of them, so I am trying to see what might scratch my itch better. For example Abaddon did not incite anything in me, though it is a much more liberal take on C&C.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Wilson
United Kingdom
Blandford
Dorset
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For what it's worth I prefer C&C

There are lots I like about BoW - especially the theme - But I can't face sticking more figures and the banner system spoils the whole experience.

C&C would benefit from 8 sided dice - but other than that can't really fault it.

Gary
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leonardo Martino
Italy
Milano
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Commands & Colors: Ancients is a great game. One minus I can add about it, well it's inherited into its sistem. Since command cards divides battlefield in right, center and left sections most scenario look the same. Its difficult to have a scenarios that departs from this structure, its especially difficult to model properly balanced scenarios with objective's conquest .

I dont know Battles of Westeros but its activation sistem may lead to better scenarios but I cant judge if they're good enough since I havent played the game .

Commands & Colors: Ancients I think its perfect to recreate pitched battles, less interesting for other combat situations (for example ambushes , retreats, last stand, conquest of strategic locations, exetera...).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.