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Subject: question about training rss

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Matteo Batteo
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Hi,
I've a problem on understanding the training room on ground floor.
When I hire a employee I put the time markers near the training room (pag.6) and it's written that the ceo marker is moved up and that the new marker are available only on next round.
At page 8 I clean the player board and after I replenish the time marker according to the CEO position (so also the new employee)
At page 16 during the explanation of the training room it's written that after the training there the time marker will be available in the next round.

how can I track the training and how does it works?

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David Short
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It appears that you have everything correct.

I'll break it down just for clarification:

- Pay Job Market price to hire a new employee
- Move Job Market Marker to the right to reflect the increase in cost to hire
- Move your CEO Marker up to reflect the new size of your company's staff
- Stack 3 of your Time Markers next to your Training Room (this is to remind you that you have a new employee that needs training)
- At some point during the Schedule Business Phase, place your Time Markers at the Training Room in order to train that new employee
- During the Reorganize Phase, clear your ground floor of any Time Markers, and then replenish your Employee Track with Time Markers according to the size of your company as marked by your CEO Marker (this quantity will include the Time Markers that represent your newly trained employee)
- Start the next round with your larger staff


I hope that helps.

Edits: Fixed mistake... replaced "hiring" with "training"
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Seth Jaffee
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Matteo brings up a very good point - one which we will need to address in the rulebook:

If you do not spend Time to train the employee, then the three time markers you would get for him during Reorganization will need to stay on the space next to Training, they will not be available for use in the following round.
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Nicolai Broen Thorning
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sedjtroll wrote:
dshortdesign wrote:
- Stack 3 of your Time Markers next to your Training Room (this is to remind you that you have a new employee that needs hiring training)

Matteo brings up a very good point - one which we will need to address in the rulebook:

If you do not spend Time to train the employee, then the three time markers you would get for him during Reorganization will need to stay on the space next to Training, they will not be available for use in the following round.

This answers a question I was pondering. My wife and I played the game twice in the past 2 days, but we took the training room to mean that you could spend 2 time markers to train 1 new employee (instead of hiring them). Thus the job market was never really used because it was all too expensive. This way it makes a lot more sense.
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Seth Jaffee
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Taibi wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:
dshortdesign wrote:
- Stack 3 of your Time Markers next to your Training Room (this is to remind you that you have a new employee that needs hiring training)

Matteo brings up a very good point - one which we will need to address in the rulebook:

If you do not spend Time to train the employee, then the three time markers you would get for him during Reorganization will need to stay on the space next to Training, they will not be available for use in the following round.

This answers a question I was pondering. My wife and I played the game twice in the past 2 days, but we took the training room to mean that you could spend 2 time markers to train 1 new employee (instead of hiring them). Thus the job market was never really used because it was all too expensive. This way it makes a lot more sense.

Indeed - the ONLY way to get a NEW employee is to hire one. Once hired, the new employee must be trained before the time markers can be used, even if you end up training him in a later round, you still have to pay the new employee his salary!
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Matteo Batteo
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sedjtroll wrote:
Matteo brings up a very good point - one which we will need to address in the rulebook:

If you do not spend Time to train the employee, then the three time markers you would get for him during Reorganization will need to stay on the space next to Training, they will not be available for use in the following round.


perfect indeed that's my question but my English causes problem in formulate in the correct way

tonight we will try the game
 
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Joseph Crane
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dshortdesign wrote:
It appears that you have everything correct.

I'll break it down just for clarification:

- Pay Job Market price to hire a new employee
- Move Job Market Marker to the right to reflect the increase in cost to hire
- Move your CEO Marker up to reflect the new size of your company's staff
- Stack 3 of your Time Markers next to your Training Room (this is to remind you that you have a new employee that needs training)
- At some point during the Schedule Business Phase, place your Time Markers at the Training Room in order to train that new employee
- During the Reorganize Phase, clear your ground floor of any Time Markers, and then replenish your Employee Track with Time Markers according to the size of your company as marked by your CEO Marker (this quantity will include the Time Markers that represent your newly trained employee)
- Start the next round with your larger staff


I hope that helps.

Edits: Fixed mistake... replaced "hiring" with "training"


Can I suggest putting this outline in the rules? Split the last point into two sentences (make second comma a full top and remove the word 'and') and put in a cross reference for the Reorganize Phase and you've got yourself some damn clear rules for the hiring employees.
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Chris Berger
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It seems like the current rule (not included in the rulebook yet) is: during your Reorganize Phase, replenish your Time Markers, 4 for your CEO and 3 for each additional employee. EXCEPT if you have time markers still sitting by your training room, for each stack of 3 time markers by your training room, you leave one employee slot empty of time markers. (The rulebook doesn't, as far as I can tell, have any rule like the second half of that, meaning the training room is essentially pointless, no? Whether you use it or not, you're instructed to gain 3 time markers for every employee you have, with no caveat for untrained employees.)

Anyway, that seems kind of needlessly complicated and fiddly. It may be too late for a suggestion of this type (but maybe not?), but... perhaps you don't need to stack three time markers by the Training Room (since using the Training Room doesn't immediately give you those time markers anyway, and having them there doesn't, IMHO, do enough to remind you that you will have to leave an empty space when you replenish time markers unless you train)... Instead, could there be additional black or grey markers for untrained employees? When you hire an employee, move your CEO marker up one space and put an "untrained employee" marker on the place where that employee's time markers would go. That counter cannot be used as a time marker or anything like that, and it blocks time markers from being replenished on that spot. Use the training room to remove one "untrained employee" marker from your board.

It seems simpler, no?

(It might even open up an idea for a new T.I. in an expansion... something like "Mail Room - Your untrained employees replenish 1 Time Marker during the Reorganize Phase instead of 0.")
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Seth Jaffee
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arkayn wrote:
It seems like the current rule (not included in the rulebook yet) is: during your Reorganize Phase, replenish your Time Markers, 4 for your CEO and 3 for each additional employee. EXCEPT if you have time markers still sitting by your training room, for each stack of 3 time markers by your training room, you leave one employee slot empty of time markers. (The rulebook doesn't, as far as I can tell, have any rule like the second half of that, meaning the training room is essentially pointless, no? Whether you use it or not, you're instructed to gain 3 time markers for every employee you have, with no caveat for untrained employees.)

Anyway, that seems kind of needlessly complicated and fiddly. It may be too late for a suggestion of this type (but maybe not?), but... perhaps you don't need to stack three time markers by the Training Room (since using the Training Room doesn't immediately give you those time markers anyway, and having them there doesn't, IMHO, do enough to remind you that you will have to leave an empty space when you replenish time markers unless you train)... Instead, could there be additional black or grey markers for untrained employees? When you hire an employee, move your CEO marker up one space and put an "untrained employee" marker on the place where that employee's time markers would go. That counter cannot be used as a time marker or anything like that, and it blocks time markers from being replenished on that spot. Use the training room to remove one "untrained employee" marker from your board.

It seems simpler, no?

(It might even open up an idea for a new T.I. in an expansion... something like "Mail Room - Your untrained employees replenish 1 Time Marker during the Reorganize Phase instead of 0.")

This is not a bad idea! I do not know if it's too late to implement or not, I'll look into it.
 
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Ken Chaney

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The current mechanism is unclear at best. There needs to be a fix, at least a rule clarification. We adopted the neutral colored cube in the training room method as well - so at least three groups have now come up with a similar solution to something we all thought was a problem.

Detail: when hiring a new employee, place a neutral cube in the training room. When getting income, you get no time markers for any untrained employees. When you execute the training room by spending time there, remove one of the neutral cubes.

This can probably be implemented within the rules wording and with the addition of a few neutral markers. It really can not be too late to implement a fix to a mechanic problem of this magnitude.
 
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David Short
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'm pleased to report that these concerns have been addressed in the latest edit of the rulebook.
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Ariel Seoane
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dshortdesign wrote:
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'm pleased to report that these concerns have been addressed in the latest edit of the rulebook.


And "Untrained tokens" have been added, to be placed on the Employee track when you hire a new employee (and removed once you train it).
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David Short
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seo_ wrote:
dshortdesign wrote:
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'm pleased to report that these concerns have been addressed in the latest edit of the rulebook.


And "Untrained tokens" have been added, to be placed on the Employee track when you hire a new employee (and removed once you train it).

And a big thanks to Ariel for putting in the extra work to include this new component. It's going to make the game even better.
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Steven Metzger
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I sent David a GM today to get some clarification, since it was REALLY confusing us tonight.

To get this straight:

- When employees are hired, you take 3 time markers and place them somewhere "inactive" on your player board.
- When you train an employee, you take 3 time markers from this "inactive" area to your "active" area.
- Time markers that are "inactive" cannot be used. Time markers that are "active" go into your supply at the end of a round.
- At the end of a round, you replenish 4/7/10/13/16/etc time markers, but but anything "inactive" or "active" also counts towards that number.

Is this correct? Is there any way to make this make more sense?
 
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Richard Ham
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metzgerism wrote:
Is this correct? Is there any way to make this make more sense?

Yup, that's correct. I think it's more intuitive if you think of the discs as actual workers instead of "time units". With that, you think of it thusly:

At the end of every round, you ensure all your workers are at their "desks", ready to receive directions for the new year. So, you put 4 workers in the first slot (these are the 4 workers you started the company with, along with your CEO). Then, you put 3 additional workers in every slot for all the additional workers you've hired and trained.

HOWEVER, if you've got some as yet untrained workers, they don't go to their desks, they stay over in the training area (these are the stacks you placed there when you hired them). So, for every stack of 3 workers awaiting training, you DON'T put a stack of three at their "desks" (the slots where the CEO lives), they're still awaiting training.

When the workers eventually do get trained, you take them off the board to represent this (they won't be able to work this turn), and when the end of the round comes up and you're sending everyone back to their desks, you can place 3 workers that are now freshly trained (because they're no longer in the "training area".

That's how I explained it to my wife, anyway, and she immediately grokked it.

It probably makes more sense with the real board too, since there are actual spots on the board to put the untrained workers, as well as dedicated spots for the workers at their "desks" at the end of a turn.

Also, there's one very misleading part of the manual (the version I read, anyway) that says at the end of a turn, you remove ALL discs from your board. That's not true... you DON'T remove the stacks of untrained workers. They remain to indicate that they're still awaiting training...
 
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Cameron Chien
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When you spend time markers to train an employee, do you get all three of the employee's time markers or just one of them?

In other words, if I have an unimproved Training Room and I spend two time markers, do I "train" one time marker or three?

Cameron
 
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Seth Jaffee
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Zeede wrote:
When you spend time markers to train an employee, do you get all three of the employee's time markers or just one of them?

In other words, if I have an unimproved Training Room and I spend two time markers, do I "train" one time marker or three?

Cameron

Each employee provides 3 Time markers. When you train an employee, then the following round you will have 3 additional Time markers to spend - no matter how many Time markers you spent to train the employee.
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Cameron Chien
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Okay, so activating the training room gains me all three of that newly trained employee's time markers.

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply, Seth!

Cameron
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Chris Berger
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Zeede wrote:
Okay, so activating the training room gains me all three of that newly trained employee's time markers.

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply, Seth!

Cameron


You don't get them until next turn. Activating the training room basically keeps you from having non-productive (0 time marker) employees next turn.
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David Short
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arkayn wrote:
Zeede wrote:
Okay, so activating the training room gains me all three of that newly trained employee's time markers.

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply, Seth!

Cameron


You don't get them until next turn. Activating the training room basically keeps you from having non-productive (0 time marker) employees next turn.


Great reminder Chris.

And just to reiterate, this whole process has been streamlined in the final production of the game.
 
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Cameron Chien
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Err well, if I understand it all correctly, you activate the Training Room with other time markers, then add the three newly trained employee's time markers to the ones already on the Training Room, and then in the cleanup phase you add all of them to your employee time track for use in the following turn.

Is that about right?

Cameron

P.S. Not related, but why does the least popular company not get any Marketing Bonus? It seems to make the popularity chart one of the most important aspects.
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Seth Jaffee
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Zeede wrote:
Err well, if I understand it all correctly, you activate the Training Room with other time markers, then add the three newly trained employee's time markers to the ones already on the Training Room, and then in the cleanup phase you add all of them to your employee time track for use in the following turn.

Is that about right?

Close enough for government work.

As David mentioned, the final rules streamlined this process and it will be a lot clearer when you get the final game in front of you. But for the print and play it will work fine to play the way you described. You just have to remember that if you DON'T train an employee you've hired, then you don't get their time markers next round!

Quote:
P.S. Not related, but why does the least popular company not get any Marketing Bonus? It seems to make the popularity chart one of the most important aspects.

It amps up the competition a little more than everybody getting a bonus. It does not make the popularity chart the most important aspect of the game by any means.

Consider how much you're spending to fight for turn order, and how much that bonus gives you back. If you just hang back and accept last place in turn order you get no bonuses, but you also save a lot of time, info, and money fighting for turn order. So it can easily be the right play, depending on what other players are doing.
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Moisés Solé
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Can I downsize an untrained employee?
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Seth Jaffee
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referee wrote:
Can I downsize an untrained employee?

Yes.
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David Short
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referee wrote:
Can I downsize an untrained employee?

Seth is correct. In a harsh economy, a company has to do what a company has to do. "You're fired!"
 
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