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Subject: More English grammar help needed rss

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Paul - the
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We have a sign at work that says "Please be so kind and put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher".

I claim this is wrong and that it should be "Please be so kind as to put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher".

My co-workers think it should be "Please be so kind and put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher".

So the big question of the day, who's least wrong?
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col_w
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Both are equally correct, but I'd use:

Please put dirty dishes in the dishwasher.
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I don't know who is least wrong, but I think you are mostest right.
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James Newton
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Or, if you want to maintain a veneer of politeness, while laying on the guilt a bit,
"Thank you for putting your dirty dishes in the dishwasher."

Where I work the problem is (claimed to be) that no-one is ever sure whether it currently contains clean or dirty items. Hence we have a sign which is placed in the open tray after the junior administrator has put the clean items away and put the dirty items left on top of the dishwasher into it, which says "This is dirty, please load". I don't know why, because it doesn't seem to make a difference.
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Joe Gola
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The sign sounds wrong as it is; we don't use the word "so" in quite that way.

Both your version and their version are grammatically correct and equally good. "Please be so kind as to..." is a somewhat formal and old-fashioned turn of phrase, but I could see someone using it in this context to soften the request. Their version is a bit more simple and direct.

If you wanted to get the job done in as few words as possible it could just read "please put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher." That's sufficiently polite, at least for an American. Well, a New Englander, anyway.
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The "so" in this sentence is what dictionaries call archaic. It makes the note sound like it was written by an old Victorian countess, the "as to" exacerbates this. Sometimes you will want something to sound that way, but common vernacular avoids it. Best to go with the shorter punchier examples given above.
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Paul - the
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sisteray wrote:
The "so" in this sentence is what dictionaries call archaic. It makes the note sound like it was written by an old Victorian countess, the "as to" exacerbates this. Sometimes you will want something to sound that way, but common vernacular avoids it. Best to go with the shorter punchier examples given above.


Thankfully I'm not the one on dishwasher duty so they can write whatever they want.
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sisteray wrote:
The "so" in this sentence is what dictionaries call archaic. It makes the note sound like it was written by an old Victorian countess, the "as to" exacerbates this. Sometimes you will want something to sound that way, but common vernacular avoids it. Best to go with the shorter punchier examples given above.


The "as to" doesn't exacerbate the "so", it's required to make it sound good. The expression is "So as to", so, in this context, using "so" without "as to" would be shockingly deleterious. "Please be so kind as to" is correct, but old-fashioned. But then, one finds that manners are old-fashioned these days. No respect for the old gentlefolk.

One must strive to avoid being passive aggressive. Use the active voice, "Please put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher".
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Scott A. Reed
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I think proper 'merican is

"Put your fucking dirty dishes in the goddamn dishwasher."
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Chris
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skelebone wrote:
I think proper 'merican is

"Put your fucking dirty dishes in the goddamn dishwasher."



And in today's culture, you have to add:

"and be happy you have a job, you slug"
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Paul Szilagyi
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Gola wrote:
If you wanted to get the job done in as few words as possible it could just read "please put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher." That's sufficiently polite, at least for an American. Well, a New Englander, anyway.

With the same amount of words, while retaining the idea that it would be considered a kindness:

"Kindly put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher."

$0.02
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Just be glad you have a dishwasher at work.
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Timothy Adamson
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Doomfarer wrote:
We have a sign at work that says "Please be so kind and put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher".

I claim this is wrong and that it should be "Please be so kind as to put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher".

My co-workers think it should be "Please be so kind and put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher".

So the big question of the day, who's least wrong?


I think both are grammatically correct, but your co-workers' version doesn't have any connection in meaning between being kind and putting the dishes in the dishwasher because of the 'and'. Their version could be rephrased, without change in meaning, to:

Please be kind. Please put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher.

Due to this, I find your version superior.
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Geeky McGeekface
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Yes, "Please be so kind" does not have quite the same connotation as "Please be kind".

I think the best way of expressing the tone of the original note, while still being gramatically correct and not sounding old fashioned would be to say, "Please be considerate and put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher".
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