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A Game of Thrones: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Not so obvious...... rss

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Dave Maynor
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Ok, so now that we have played more, a few other rules questions have come up that aren't immediately obvious. For the most part, if you have played CCGs, then the rules are really straight forward. Really simple actually. But here are a few questions maybe someone can help with.

1) Agendas? The main rules talks about them, but none come in the Core. Why talk about them then? Do some have a gold cost? Do you play these during the 5 gold setup round?

2) Speaking of the setup round... are unique characters unique for the whole game? Or just within one players controlled cards? If I am Greyjoy and marshall Theon, does this mean no one else (like Stark) can now marshall a Theon in the same game? Even if this is not the case, we will likely play it that way because it is on theme, and really cool (and I miss when L5R used to be this way). Assuming they ARE truly unique, what about when the cards are revealed for the setup 5 gold? What if 2 uniques are exposed then at the same time?

3) I see the FAQ states if a Captain of the Kings Guard player uses his title ability to take an undefended Military challenge unto himself, the attacker can then re-choose the Stealth targets for that challenge. Is this also true for the Crown Regent redirection ability?

4) If I lose a character due to Claim, the rules seem to state I MUST fulfill it if possible. If one character cannot be killed, but I have another that can, I MUST kill the unprotected character to fulfill claim? But even though this is true, I can still choose someone who can be killed, and THEN play a save effect on them? Am I missing something? Why can't you just choose to kill or discard someone who happens to be immune to that effect?

5) Follow up... let's say I play the Red Wedding. We have one lord and one lady in play. I control the lord, and an opponent controls the Lady. The lady is protected this turn from being killed (maybe she has a ring icon or something). When the lord and lady are chosen, these are the 2 selected. Can I choose to KILL the lady, even though it will fail, and then gain 2 power on my lord? Or do I HAVE to try to fulfill both portions as completely as possible, killing my lord and giving their lady 2 power?

6) Does immune to character abilities include immune to stealth and deadly effects?

The real stickling point has been those questions about choosing to kill someone, and being allowed to choose someone who is immune. It seems like you are allowed to choose and then save someone, but not choose someone who is outright immune for the turn, unless that is your last and only option. Is there a rules reference supporting any of this?
 
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Dan D
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To the best of my abilities:

1. Agendas are cards separate from plot or draw deck. Think like Housecards, but give you some benefit at some cost. Like Knights of the Realm that lets you draw an extra card if you have the most knights than any other player, but one less should you have less knights that any other player.

2. Unique means unique to one player. You could potentially have 3-4 Theons on the board, under the control of different houses, with dupes and all that. But one dead for you, you can not bring it back.

3. Of course he can still use stealth. Just look at the framework. Declares attackers - player actions (redirect) - Assign Stealth and Declare defenders

4. You must attempt to kill somebody that can die, if you can. It's ok to save him while he is moribund, but not to kill someone who can't be killed.

5. No idea here. I would play it that you kill the lord and give the lady 2 power.

6. Most surely, no. Immune to character abilities does not mean immune to keywords. Keywords are not character abilities. Every text below Keywords that is not flavor text is character ability. Usually there are responses and such.
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Dave Maynor
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Well, as to #3...

That is the odd part. You declare an attack, and then choose Stealth targets. After this, the defender then decides who to kneel to defend. If they kneel no one, this becomes an undefended challenge... but it is only at THIS point that the Kings Guard ability can be used. So are you saying that the redirect for the Crown Regent occurs before any stealth targeting or choice of defending at all?

And for #4.....

Lets assume my character with a Ring icon cannot be killed, but has a duplicate. Is it then legal to target them, and remove the duplicate, even though technically that character could not be killed by the actual effect?
 
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Mark T
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#3 p18 Core Set rules: "After a player initiates a challenge and declares a target and attackers, you may use this title to make that player choose a new target for the attack!"
So, yes, only the target and the Characters being used in the attack have been declared, not yet stealth etc.

#4 No. "Cannot" is an absolute. If it "cannot be killed" it cannot even be chosen (FAQ 3.2 pg 10 para 4.3; CS rules p20 Immunity).

If you think it through it makes sense. A character's "cannot be killed" isn't a human shield for all of your other characters to hide behind.
 
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Drew Dallas
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i3ullseye wrote:


5) Follow up... let's say I play the Red Wedding. We have one lord and one lady in play. I control the lord, and an opponent controls the Lady. The lady is protected this turn from being killed (maybe she has a ring icon or something). When the lord and lady are chosen, these are the 2 selected. Can I choose to KILL the lady, even though it will fail, and then gain 2 power on my lord? Or do I HAVE to try to fulfill both portions as completely as possible, killing my lord and giving their lady 2 power?

If the lady cannot be killed and the lord can be killed, you must choose the lord to be killed.
 
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Andy Mills
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In the rules for "Supports":
"Stealth, if applicable, must be declared
against characters controlled by the player who is
the original target of the attack."

So there is actually a difference between the Kingsguard redirect and the Supports redirect when it comes to Stealth.
 
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Dave Maynor
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Yeah, the FAQ clears up the Kingsguard and stealth... and I guess the timing on Crown Regent happens before this step, so all of that is clear.

Here is another....

The Hand gives you 2 influence for the turn. But many cards say to kneel influence to use it. Does the influence have to actually be on a card to be kneeled? And can you kneel these 2 influence in 2 separate uses of 1 influence each?
 
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Drew Dallas
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i3ullseye wrote:

And can you kneel these 2 influence in 2 separate uses of 1 influence each?


No, you kneel the card to pay the influence cost, any leftover is lost.
 
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Dave Maynor
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But I am asking about the title.... is it assumed that the title = the card that represents the title, so even if you do not use the card, the statue itself must be knelt to use the influence, and it must be used as a single unit of 2?
 
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ruvion .
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a brief aside for down memory lane:

In the CCG days "Cannot be Killed" were liable to be chosen from military claim. That was deemed broken and were errataed to what it is today.
 
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Mark T
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i3ullseye wrote:
But I am asking about the title.... is it assumed that the title = the card that represents the title, so even if you do not use the card, the statue itself must be knelt to use the influence, and it must be used as a single unit of 2?


Correct.
 
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Andy Mills
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ruvion wrote:
a brief aside for down memory lane:

In the CCG days "Cannot be Killed" were liable to be chosen from military claim. That was deemed broken and were errataed to what it is today.


There was a version of Ser Davos Seaworth with the text "Ser Davos Seaworth cannot be killed, but may be chosen to be killed." It was just silly.
 
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