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Age of Steam Expansion: Mexico & China» Forums » Rules

Subject: Chang Sha and the adjacent town rss

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Eugene
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Is Chang Sha a blue city two hexes large? How do cubes pass through the two hexes?

Abutting Chang Sha is a town. When it becomes urbanized, as seen in the game below, can cubes be delivered between that new city and Chang Sha directly, without using track tiles?

 
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I have always considered the top hex a lake, not part of Chang Sha.
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Pierre Paquet
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Chang Sha is a one city hex. The hex adjacent is a lake and is impassable.

Have fun.
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Eugene
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Really? Is it mentioned in the rules?
 
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Don D.
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garygarison wrote:
Really? Is it mentioned in the rules?


NOPE! Love rules that completely omit critical info.
 
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Eugene
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When it comes to AoS maps, that unfortunately seems very common.
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Bruce Murphy
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dond80 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
Really? Is it mentioned in the rules?


NOPE! Love rules that completely omit critical info.


Critical information such as 'the plain blue hex on the map which is not otherwise mentioned is treated identically to the plain blue hexes in the base game's map'. Other things not mentioned in the rules for this expansion include "you can't built on the black partial hexes" and "don't roll three dice and build that many extra track segments for free twice on Tuesdays".

AoS maps almost always provide a diff from the base game rules, rather than a comprehensive rules set. It is assumed that people have read and understand the base game rules.

B>
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Don D.
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thepackrat wrote:
dond80 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
Really? Is it mentioned in the rules?


NOPE! Love rules that completely omit critical info.


Critical information such as 'the plain blue hex on the map which is not otherwise mentioned is treated identically to the plain blue hexes in the base game's map'. Other things not mentioned in the rules for this expansion include "you can't built on the black partial hexes" and "don't roll three dice and build that many extra track segments for free twice on Tuesdays".

AoS maps almost always provide a diff from the base game rules, rather than a comprehensive rules set. It is assumed that people have read and understand the base game rules.

B>


Youre just too damn snotty for your own good, Bruce. Since you described blue "hexes" plural, Go check your AoS main board and find for me more than one plain blue hexagon. HINT: you will not find more than one. What you will find are a number of lakes that border the hexagons that form the playing board. What you will also find on the original AOS board are that these large, blue, mostly NON-hexagonal regions are CLEARLY LABELED as the various Great Lakes- which, of course, is in stark contrast to the random blue space on this map which is not labeled.

You should actually fact check your own post before mocking me.

And while we're at, would you stop following me around and flirting with me on the geek- I'm not Tom Vasel and frankly you can only have a crush on one of us.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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dond80 wrote:

Youre just too damn snotty for your own good, Bruce. Since you described blue "hexes" plural, Go check your AoS main board and find for me more than one plain blue hexagon. HINT: you will not find more than one. What you will find are a number of lakes that border the hexagons that form the playing board.


?

Quote:
What you will also find on the original AOS board are that these large, blue, mostly NON-hexagonal regions are CLEARLY LABELED as the various Great Lakes- which, of course, is in stark contrast to the random blue space on this map which is not labeled.


I do not find it reasonable that in the face of a lake which is not labelled with a name, one should suddenly believe that a multi-hex city has suddenly appeared, particularly as the rules make no mention of such labelling as having meaning. Further, since additional rules (to those in the base game) are required to resolve various ambiguities around multi-hex cities, maps which include them call them out specifically, which is not done here.

Most people, playing extension maps, simply consider that the general case of "Great Lakes" is water, and do not have any problem playing on a map where the blue water hexes are a different lake, a sea, or even part of a large river. They endeavour to not make up new rules and generally have a better experience.

Quote:

You should actually fact check your own post before mocking me.

And while we're at, would you stop following me around and flirting with me on the geek- I'm not Tom Vasel and frankly you can only have a crush on one of us.


I find your insinuation insulting. I've been posting on the AoS forums for years, and maintain subscriptions to a number of games, and game systems, that interest me. If you happen to say something of note about one of those, I may well reply to it.

This does not constitute "following you around". I neither know, nor have any interest in what you say or do concerning games which are not of interest to me.

B>
 
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Don D.
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thepackrat wrote:
dond80 wrote:

Youre just too damn snotty for your own good, Bruce. Since you described blue "hexes" plural, Go check your AoS main board and find for me more than one plain blue hexagon. HINT: you will not find more than one. What you will find are a number of lakes that border the hexagons that form the playing board.


?


Nice picture. As I said, there is not more than one blue hexagon lake on the AoS map. And that lake is also labeled.



thepackrat wrote:

Most people, playing extension maps, simply consider that the general case of "Great Lakes" is water, and do not have any problem playing on a map where the blue water hexes are a different lake, a sea, or even part of a large river. They endeavour to not make up new rules and generally have a better experience.


"blue WATER hexes" I agree with your point. Except where it completely falls apart by adding in the word "water" since the hex at issue was just a random blue space next to a blue city. That you do not accept that the game would have benefited by a label on the lake or single sentence added to the rules shows your lack of flexibility.

Quote:


I find your insinuation insulting. I've been posting on the AoS forums for years, and maintain subscriptions to a number of games, and game systems, that interest me. If you happen to say something of note about one of those, I may well reply to it.

This does not constitute "following you around". I neither know, nor have any interest in what you say or do concerning games which are not of interest to me.

B>


Why you keep sending me valentines then? modest
 
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Bruce Murphy
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dond80 wrote:


"blue WATER hexes" I agree with your point. Except where it completely falls apart by adding in the word "water" since the hex at issue was just a random blue space next to a blue city. That you do not accept that the game would have benefited by a label on the lake or single sentence added to the rules shows your lack of flexibility.


I can see the blue water texture used in all the sea hexes in that hex as well. Can you not see it?

B>
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Don D.
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thepackrat wrote:
dond80 wrote:


"blue WATER hexes" I agree with your point. Except where it completely falls apart by adding in the word "water" since the hex at issue was just a random blue space next to a blue city. That you do not accept that the game would have benefited by a label on the lake or single sentence added to the rules shows your lack of flexibility.


I can see the blue water texture used in all the sea hexes in that hex as well. Can you not see it?

B>


Do you not know what a hexagon is?
 
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Bruce Murphy
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I'm going to try to explain the process you could have used here to work out the rule, and which you can use in the future to work out rules which might seem unclear.

If there is a hexagon filled with the same shading as other areas on the board, it is likely related to them and probably behaves the same way. This also applies to and between regions formed of more than one hexagon.

It is unhelpful to label it "random" when it has been marked in this fashion, although while it may well not reflect real geography perfectly, such hexes are often added for game-balance reasons.

Many other non-large-publisher AoS maps use quite crude artwork (or in fact plain colour) to represent water hexes, so you're better off considering all plain (non-city) blue hexes to be water and to act just like the water in the rust belt unless there is a specific map rule that tells you otherwise.

B>
 
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Don D.
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thepackrat wrote:
I'm going to try to explain the process you could have used here to work out the rule, and which you can use in the future to work out rules which might seem unclear.

If there is a hexagon filled with the same shading as other areas on the board, it is likely related to them and probably behaves the same way. This also applies to and between regions formed of more than one hexagon.

It is unhelpful to label it "random" when it has been marked in this fashion, although while it may well not reflect real geography perfectly, such hexes are often added for game-balance reasons.

Many other non-large-publisher AoS maps use quite crude artwork (or in fact plain colour) to represent water hexes, so you're better off considering all plain (non-city) blue hexes to be water and to act just like the water in the rust belt unless there is a specific map rule that tells you otherwise.

B>


Two questions for you, Brucey.

1) When did I say that I had trouble figuring out that it is a lake?

2) So, do you not know what a hexagon is?
 
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Bruce Murphy
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dond80 wrote:

Two questions for you, Brucey.

1) When did I say that I had trouble figuring out that it is a lake?



dond80 wrote:

NOPE! Love rules that completely omit critical info.


If you did not encounter difficulty in establishing that this was a lake, I am puzzled as to why you engaged with a conversation about the lake-ness of the hex by suggesting that the rules were missing "critical info".

B>
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Don D.
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thepackrat wrote:
dond80 wrote:

Two questions for you, Brucey.

1) When did I say that I had trouble figuring out that it is a lake?



dond80 wrote:

NOPE! Love rules that completely omit critical info.


If you did not encounter difficulty in establishing that this was a lake, I am puzzled as to why you engaged with a conversation about the lake-ness of the hex by suggesting that the rules were missing "critical info".

B>


A lot puzzles you. Perhaps it's because I think based on my interactions with him on the geek, Gary is a fairly intelligent guy. And if one fairly intelligent guy like Gary was puzzled enough by this that he felt it necessary to post on the geek about it, then I'm comfortable saying it was a critical omission in the rules- even if I personally was able to figure it out.
 
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Eugene
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For the record, this question about the mysterious blue hex came up when I and group of other experienced AoS players at last year's Gamestorm tried out the China map for the first time. None of us were completely sure of its status. Bruce says he can see the blue water texture on that hex. Maybe it was our printing, but with the empty board right below our eyes, not a single one of us picked out that hex as a water hex.
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Don D.
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garygarison wrote:
For the record, this question about the mysterious blue hex came up when I and group of other experienced AoS players at last year's Gamestorm tried out the China map for the first time. None of us were completely sure of its status. Bruce says he can see the blue water texture on that hex. Maybe it was our printing, but with the empty board right below our eyes, not a single one of us picked out that hex as a water hex.


My experience mostly mirrored yours. We felt it was likeliest that it was a lake and played with it as such, but at no point did we think it was clearly a lake or that any other interpretation was unreasonable and unlikely. I was not surprised when I came to the forums after playing and saw your thread.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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Groupthink. You said nobody was sure of its status and that nobody thought water, so what were the suggestions made other than inexplicable rule breaking large city?

Did anyone think to check BGG images for the preview of the map or the original china edition.

B>
 
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Bruce Murphy
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dond80 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
For the record, this question about the mysterious blue hex came up when I and group of other experienced AoS players at last year's Gamestorm tried out the China map for the first time. None of us were completely sure of its status. Bruce says he can see the blue water texture on that hex. Maybe it was our printing, but with the empty board right below our eyes, not a single one of us picked out that hex as a water hex.


My experience mostly mirrored yours. We felt it was likeliest that it was a lake and played with it as such, but at no point did we think it was clearly a lake or that any other interpretation was unreasonable and unlikely. I was not surprised when I came to the forums after playing and saw your thread.


So. YOu think it was likely a lake but also likely something else requiring a bunch of new and unstated rules. Are you deliberately hedging?

Here's how you can be more certain. The interpretation that doesn't require you to invent a bUnch of rules or new things never seen in AoS is the correct one.

B>
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Don D.
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thepackrat wrote:
dond80 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
For the record, this question about the mysterious blue hex came up when I and group of other experienced AoS players at last year's Gamestorm tried out the China map for the first time. None of us were completely sure of its status. Bruce says he can see the blue water texture on that hex. Maybe it was our printing, but with the empty board right below our eyes, not a single one of us picked out that hex as a water hex.


My experience mostly mirrored yours. We felt it was likeliest that it was a lake and played with it as such, but at no point did we think it was clearly a lake or that any other interpretation was unreasonable and unlikely. I was not surprised when I came to the forums after playing and saw your thread.


So. YOu think it was likely a lake but also likely something else requiring a bunch of new and unstated rules. Are you deliberately hedging?

Here's how you can be more certain. The interpretation that doesn't require you to invent a bUnch of rules or new things never seen in AoS is the correct one.

B>


I think that human beings are not robots and all of us think differently and experience things differently. I thought it was a lake but would not be willing to be a snotty son of a _____ to someone who didn't immediately think that it was. I think it more reasonable for someone to think it was a double city than it is for someone to think every human alive who would play this should immediately recognize it as a lake without needing one iota of clarification from the rules or a label of the lake's name printed on the board. I am done responding to you on this thread.
 
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Juho Snellman
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It doesn't seem to be unreasonable to assume that two hexes with exactly the same color are the same thing. It'd take exceptional incompetence in graphic design to unintentionally use the same shade of blue for the two unrelated purposes. Oh, wait. Published by FRED? Never mind.

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thepackrat wrote:
Groupthink. You said nobody was sure of its status and that nobody thought water, so what were the suggestions made other than inexplicable rule breaking large city?

Having played other AoS maps with multi-hex cities, none of us thought a two-hex Chang Sha was particularly rule breaking.

Quote:
Did anyone think to check BGG images for the preview of the map or the original china edition.

The suggestion that players of this map must appeal to authorities outside just the rules and board is kind of the bone of contention.
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Bruce Murphy
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garygarison wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
Groupthink. You said nobody was sure of its status and that nobody thought water, so what were the suggestions made other than inexplicable rule breaking large city?

Having played other AoS maps with multi-hex cities, none of us thought a two-hex Chang Sha was particularly rule breaking.

Those maps tend to explicitly include the rules you found you were missing regarding what to do with this never-described-in-base-rules multi hex city.
Quote:


Quote:
Did anyone think to check BGG images for the preview of the map or the original china edition.

The suggestion that players of this map must appeal to authorities outside just the rules and board is kind of the bone of contention.


The rules, plus the rules of base AoS are required. This is not unusual.

B>
 
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Bruce Murphy
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jsnell wrote:
It doesn't seem to be unreasonable to assume that two hexes with exactly the same color are the same thing. It'd take exceptional incompetence in graphic design to unintentionally use the same shade of blue for the two unrelated purposes. Oh, wait. Published by FRED? Never mind.


IF you look at the preview photos for this edition (which were obviously graphic layout files), their original design had the colours more distinct, but the actual printing had them closer together, leaving only the identical texturing to the sea to distinguish them.

That and the lack of rules for a multi-hex city.

B>
 
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