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Subject: A quick guide to playing Investigator(s) rss

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rock lobster
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Some bullet-points to ponder (should you be having trouble nabbing Jack):

* Don't move predictably. Sometimes *not* moving is a good example of unpredictable movement. Also remember that YOU can move through Jack but Jack cannot move through YOU. Jack may expect you to move through him.

* Don't over-chase. A good Jack will lead your team of investigators out of position for the next night. Leaving huge holes in your net.

* Think like Jack. I suggest every investigator keep a clipboard/notepad handy and "pretend" to play Jack along with Jack. Example: from the second Jack strikes, write your hypothetical movement down along with turn-order. If Jack coaches, you mark two moves.

* Conference with your team often (and on Jack's turn). Share notes, "Think Like Jack" movements, and other general nuggets of information. Make it very obvious to the point of distraction (for Jack) during Jack's movement phase. Even if you have nothing; whisper, smile, and laugh as if you know exactly what Jack is doing at all times.

* Relax. Relax! The pressure should always be on Jack. If you or anyone on your team shows any sign of weakness, uncertainty, or analysis paralysis, go ahead and whisper something funny/random in their ear. Laughing investigators appear confident. Confident investigators make Jack nervous. Nervous Jack makes mistakes.
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Don D.
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rainofwalrus wrote:
Some bullet-points to ponder (should you be having trouble nabbing Jack):

* Don't move predictably. Sometimes *not* moving is a good example of unpredictable movement. Also remember that YOU can move through Jack but Jack cannot move through YOU. Jack may expect you to move through him.

* Don't over-chase. A good Jack will lead your team of investigators out of position for the next night. Leaving huge holes in your net.

* Think like Jack. I suggest every investigator keep a clipboard/notepad handy and "pretend" to play Jack along with Jack. Example: from the second Jack strikes, write your hypothetical movement down along with turn-order. If Jack coaches, you mark two moves.

* Conference with your team often (and on Jack's turn). Share notes, "Think Like Jack" movements, and other general nuggets of information. Make it very obvious to the point of distraction (for Jack) during Jack's movement phase. Even if you have nothing; whisper, smile, and laugh as if you know exactly what Jack is doing at all times.

* Relax. Relax! The pressure should always be on Jack. If you or anyone on your team shows any sign of weakness, uncertainty, or analysis paralysis, go ahead and whisper something funny/random in their ear. Laughing investigators appear confident. Confident investigators make Jack nervous. Nervous Jack makes mistakes.


A fantastic post. Rarely in these whitechapel forums do I find posts that I 100% agree with, but this is great advice all around. The unpredictability is the most essential advice you gave, and it should be taken a step farther- make intermittent, unpredictable arrests along the already traveled path. Once players get good the game starts to balance out. Then jack starts to learn the power of backtrack and the game again swings wildly in favor of jack again. The only real way to deal with this as the police is to deter the conduct by the credible threat of the aforementioned random arrests along the already traveled path. Doing this also simultaneously accomplishes the goal identified by your second great piece of advice.

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rock lobster
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thanks for the kind words. I was very close to bullet-pointing "Random Arrests," but decided against at the last minute for several reasons.

a) not scientific enough

b) nobody in our group (jack or investigator) feels *good* winning the game by sheer fluke of Random Arrest; especially given the Random Arrest was only made as a Back-track Deterrent (you were right on the money there)

some may be wondering why an investigator would be upset by this sort of fluke.arrest=1(win). Simple really. I'm chasing Jack down mainstreet on turn 1 and make a Random.Arrest *only* to keep Jack on his toes (make him fear doubling back on me) and he looks sad. Says we got him. Turn 1. We all sorta hang our heads in shame.



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Don D.
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rainofwalrus wrote:

thanks for the kind words. I was very close to bullet-pointing "Random Arrests," but decided against at the last minute for several reasons.

a) not scientific enough

b) nobody in our group (jack or investigator) feels *good* winning the game by sheer fluke of Random Arrest; especially given the Random Arrest was only made as a Back-track Deterrent (you were right on the money there)

some may be wondering why an investigator would be upset by this sort of fluke.arrest=1(win). Simple really. I'm chasing Jack down mainstreet on turn 1 and make a Random.Arrest *only* to keep Jack on his toes (make him fear doubling back on me) and he looks sad. Says we got him. Turn 1. We all sorta hang our heads in shame.





Ahh, but see if I'm jack and I know this reluctance of yours I will backtrack frequently and you will lose 90% of the time! Show no mercy, take part in the meta game! A win is a win
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rock lobster
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dond80 wrote:
rainofwalrus wrote:

thanks for the kind words. I was very close to bullet-pointing "Random Arrests," but decided against at the last minute for several reasons.

a) not scientific enough

b) nobody in our group (jack or investigator) feels *good* winning the game by sheer fluke of Random Arrest; especially given the Random Arrest was only made as a Back-track Deterrent (you were right on the money there)

some may be wondering why an investigator would be upset by this sort of fluke.arrest=1(win). Simple really. I'm chasing Jack down mainstreet on turn 1 and make a Random.Arrest *only* to keep Jack on his toes (make him fear doubling back on me) and he looks sad. Says we got him. Turn 1. We all sorta hang our heads in shame.





Ahh, but see if I'm jack and I know this reluctance of yours I will backtrack frequently and you will lose 90% of the time! Show no mercy, take part in the meta game! A win is a win


Ah, but perhaps 90% is a pipe-dream and our Night 4 proximity-trap still gets you. I wouldn't dare quote a percentile, but I do know our proximity-traps are more reliable than 10%--no matter how much double-backing you did.
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Don D.
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rainofwalrus wrote:
dond80 wrote:
rainofwalrus wrote:

thanks for the kind words. I was very close to bullet-pointing "Random Arrests," but decided against at the last minute for several reasons.

a) not scientific enough

b) nobody in our group (jack or investigator) feels *good* winning the game by sheer fluke of Random Arrest; especially given the Random Arrest was only made as a Back-track Deterrent (you were right on the money there)

some may be wondering why an investigator would be upset by this sort of fluke.arrest=1(win). Simple really. I'm chasing Jack down mainstreet on turn 1 and make a Random.Arrest *only* to keep Jack on his toes (make him fear doubling back on me) and he looks sad. Says we got him. Turn 1. We all sorta hang our heads in shame.





Ahh, but see if I'm jack and I know this reluctance of yours I will backtrack frequently and you will lose 90% of the time! Show no mercy, take part in the meta game! A win is a win


Ah, but perhaps 90% is a pipe-dream and our Night 4 proximity-trap still gets you. I wouldn't dare quote a percentile, but I do know our proximity-traps are more reliable than 10%--no matter how much double-backing you did.


Well I don't know what a proximity trap is so I'm I'll equipped to disagree!
 
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rock lobster
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proximity trapping is the idea of getting multiple "spawnpoints" near Jack's Area of Influence on Night 4.

Im sure we both agree that Night 4 is (should be) the most difficult night for Jack. [Does Jack have a one-move Night 4 Win?] must be addressed no later than Night 3. the proximity trap should disallow this single move.

the proximity trap isn't so much about flooding an area with actual Investigators, it can also be ripe with red herrings. tricking Jack into avoiding a false proximity trap. situational, as always.

I fear having a weak trap more than I fear Jack doubling-back. IMHO, turns 1-3 are more about setting the trap than forcing Jack to behave in ways the Investigators so choose (double back deterrent).

It cracks me up when I read posts about Jack getting 1-move wins (re: Game is broken). It means no trap-logic was in place, and that Jack led the investigators on a goose-chase.
 
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Don D.
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rainofwalrus wrote:
proximity trapping is the idea of getting multiple "spawnpoints" near Jack's Area of Influence on Night 4.

Im sure we both agree that Night 4 is (should be) the most difficult night for Jack. [Does Jack have a one-move Night 4 Win?] must be addressed no later than Night 3. the proximity trap should disallow this single move.

the proximity trap isn't so much about flooding an area with actual Investigators, it can also be ripe with red herrings. tricking Jack into avoiding a false proximity trap. situational, as always.

I fear having a weak trap more than I fear Jack doubling-back. IMHO, turns 1-3 are more about setting the trap than forcing Jack to behave in ways the Investigators so choose (double back deterrent).

It cracks me up when I read posts about Jack getting 1-move wins (re: Game is broken). It means no trap-logic was in place, and that Jack led the investigators on a goose-chase.


Maybe I'm dense, but i still have no idea what you mean by proximity trap and am perhaps more confused about what it means after the above post than I was before lol. I also don't know what you mean by multiple spawn points.
 
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rock lobster
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No problem.

Tactical Police Movement for Night 4 Trap: Knowing when to stop chasing and start GAMING the Night 4 Police-Advantage well in advance of Night 4, mind you. How many wretched spawnpoints are left? How many moves did Jack use each night? Where do we think he is based?

With Tactical Police Movement, our group effectively LOCKS down Wretched so they cant even move. Often locking their Red Circle Spawn with a blood.token or forcing Jack to rethink his entire strategy midgame.

Really messes with Jack.

Spawnpoints (videogame; deathmatch term) being the Moving Police Tokens or the Red Wretched Spawn Circles. A lot of players forget that their Police tokens are mobile spawnpoints(1/0; decoy).
 
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Don D.
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rainofwalrus wrote:
No problem.

Tactical Police Movement for Night 4 Trap: Knowing when to stop chasing and start GAMING the Night 4 Police-Advantage well in advance of Night 4, mind you. How many wretched spawnpoints are left? How many moves did Jack use each night? Where do we think he is based?

With Tactical Police Movement, our group effectively LOCKS down Wretched so they cant even move. Often locking their Red Circle Spawn with a blood.token or forcing Jack to rethink his entire strategy midgame.

Really messes with Jack.

Spawnpoints (videogame; deathmatch term) being the Moving Police Tokens or the Red Wretched Spawn Circles. A lot of players forget that their Police tokens are mobile spawnpoints(1/0; decoy).


Well...this sounds great in theory, and it seems like the clue gathering to get a good idea of where jacks hideout is is an essential part of that process...and a clever jack knows how to make that VERY difficult on the investigators. Also, if jack is allowing the red circles to be covered with blood tokens on either night 1 or 2 jack just isn't a very experienced player. Night 4 should always begin with jack having at least two realistic wretched spots if he's playing competently. And Im just not seeing how you lock down every wretched so they cant move.
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Don D.
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Perhaps a session report could flesh out the details of your groups strategy more effectively? I'm honestly very curious!
 
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rock lobster
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Locking a Wretched:

* Back-n-forth Wretched movement (legal if I'm not mistaken);
* Non-decoy Police Revealed (Wretched cant move adjacent to);
* Previous Blood.Token (Wretch cant move onto);

If Jack favors a certain spot. and gets neighboring BloodToken-locks on night 2, a night 3 wretched-lock can occur (with police help). The Wretched can't move at all. And if the wretched cant move, it sits still.

If the wretched on Night 4 is locked. And Jack must take the Wretched. Well... Proximity Trap.
 
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Don D.
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rainofwalrus wrote:
Locking a Wretched:

* Back-n-forth Wretched movement (legal if I'm not mistaken);
* Non-decoy Police Revealed (Wretched cant move adjacent to);
* Previous Blood.Token (Wretch cant move onto);

If Jack favors a certain spot. and gets neighboring BloodToken-locks on night 2, a night 3 wretched-lock can occur (with police help). The Wretched can't move at all. And if the wretched cant move, it sits still.

If the wretched on Night 4 is locked. And Jack must take the Wretched. Well... Proximity Trap.


I see...the problem from that description is that strategy is dependent on jack playing what i would label as substandard. Jack should always be ensuring himself a flexible position for later turns by choosing different starting spots, NEVER killing on a red start spot on night 1 or 2. This is just my opinion of course.
 
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rock lobster
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you are a wise Jack. but the entire point of the TRAP is being flexible to all styles of Jack play. the example I give is the tightest form of trap, required for people who insist that EARLY BASE JACK strategy is a lock.

it is not.

Im in no way implying TRAP strategy is a lock for police. A good JACK will see what is happening and make adjustments. And the rabbit hole deepens.

Back to "leveling up," I feel that JACK can almost play completely at random, rolling dice against a (scripted) MovementTable and still win 50/50. Police don't have this luxury. Ever.
 
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rainofwalrus wrote:
proximity trapping is the idea of getting multiple "spawnpoints" near Jack's Area of Influence on Night 4.

Im sure we both agree that Night 4 is (should be) the most difficult night for Jack. [Does Jack have a one-move Night 4 Win?] must be addressed no later than Night 3. the proximity trap should disallow this single move.

I fear having a weak trap more than I fear Jack doubling-back. IMHO, turns 1-3 are more about setting the trap than forcing Jack to behave in ways the Investigators so choose (double back deterrent).


I agree with Don (who happens to be my most frequent Whitechapel opponent). Setting a trap sounds great in theory, but in practice I don't see how you can have the necessary information to set a successful trap if you've ignored chasing Jack's trail.

Being aware of your investigators' positioning for future nights is definitely an important factor to consider when on the chase, but ultimately it is a secondary concern to tracing Jack's trail, IMO. If you can't reduce the potential location of Jack's hideout to a small enough area then how can you know where to set the trap? Setting a trap entails knowledge of where Jack is headed, which - if playing against a clever Jack - will often consume the entirety of your efforts the first couple nights.
 
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Upon reflection, it seems to me that your strategy is in large part a response to a "blitz" strategy wherein Jack rushes home as quickly as possible without a serious attempt at misdirection. If Jack darts straight home then you are handed information about the whereabouts of his hideout without having to chase the trail, e.g. he jetted to his hideout from 134 in 3 moves. I played a game recently against someone who tried this and I agree that positioning becomes much more important, specifically as night 4 approaches so you can put yourself between Jack and his hideout.

But if the investigators aren't actively (and successfully) chasing Jack's trail, then as Jack I really have no reason to rush home. Perhaps instead I'll linger around my hideout for several turns, negating the usefulness of the count established in the example above. In sum: if the investigators don't pressure, then Jack can misdirect at ease, making the deduction of the hideout location impossible. As Don says your comments make me very curious because I like the idea that perhaps I'm not thinking enough outside the box in my own approach to the game, but I just don't see how a successful investigator strategy can involve ignoring the chase of Jack's trail.
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rock lobster
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well said. and yes, you must search for clues. I was suggesting less over-commitment to the chase (which empowers Jack) and more focus on preparing the team for Nights 3 and 4.

the trap strategy, like any, will range in success directly related to amount of clues/trail. but the nice thing about the trap strategy is it can work even in the absence of clues (which happens). This absence of clues scenario leads Jack-players to believe they are unbeatable, and for the most part, leads Investigators to think they are completely sunk without clues.

The balance is Night 4's single target. Where does Jack put it? Do we have it trapped before the murder? Can we trap Jack quickly AFTER the murder? This TRAP META game doesn't required much information on Jack's trail, or his base. It is, perhaps, the only effective strategy in the event you've completely lost Jack's trail (which happens).

It's also something we ditch in the name of unpredictability. Our Jacks are trying to beat the trap, so we switch gears and carpet for clues. Or make random-arrests. Or some combination.

I hope I didn't give the impression our Investigative Team(s) weren't dynamic.

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I'll put some more of my tips up here later, but as a general rule I would say you have to remember two things.

You win by (a) an arrest, or (b) by working out where Jack's hideout is.

Obvious, I know, but there are some important points you draw out from them.

a1) You don't always have to look for clues. You can get just as much information from making arrests sometimes, and you can also win.
a2) Night three is key and a sloppy Jack can make it an easy win if you know what you're doing.

b1) You need clues to do this. Literal and in the more general sense.
b2) Blocking off a clump of possible hideouts can work as well as knowing which one it is specifically.
b3) leaving limited avenues to get home in a general area can help you knock things out by trial and error, just standing still and getting one or two timing clues.
 
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