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Subject: University > Contractors rss

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Kevin Nguyen
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I'm wondering how recruiting workers with universities should work.

The way the rule book states it is:
"You must take these Workers from the General Supple. You may choose permanent Workers or Contractors(subject to availability)."

So I have two readings of the rule. I'm inclined towards the first but I'd like some opinions please.

1. You can take EITHER Permanent Workers or Contractors, but not both at the same time.

EX1: You use two Laborers and you can take either (up to 3 Permanent Engineers) or (up to 3 Contractors)

IE no mixing and matching

2. You can take from either pool, up to the limit

EX2: You place two laborers, you can now take three Engineers of either your Color or Contractors.

IE: as Long as there are workers of that variant of either your color or grey you can take them.



Why I prefer the first reading: I feel it helps soften the impact when a player takes the 2>3special University and makes it more situational building. For instance if they had only 2 engineers left of their color, would they want to spend the building to get only 2 engineers of their color, or three contractors? Or even if there is 1 engineer of thier color left, but the main board's engineer slot is taken. With the second reading, you would use the building regardless, its more flexible, but provides fewer chance for interesting decisions.

On the other hand, the second reading makes using espionage on the Universities ALOT easier. But i don't feel like that is the sufficient reasoning to use this reading.
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Ken Dilloo
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If I am understanding you right, you take your own, colored, workers, of the type, before you take contractors. I assume you could (Think Brandon answered this) take contractors, before you run out of your own, but that would be rather foolish.

So, if you get 3 scientists, and only have 2 left, of your own, to claim, you get your
2, plus a contracting scientist, if the contractor is available.
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Garry Rice
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When "hiring" workers, you always may take from your stock or from the contractors...*edited to correct ruling

Okay...you can take any combination...still not sure it's to your advantage to take contract workers over your own though...even to deny them to others...
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Eric Jome
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It is never to your advantage to take contractors over regular workers.

Recently, someone noted that if you, during Espionage, put one of your own and one contractor on an opponent's building, then when you recall yours comes back but the contractor does not. This blocks the building until that player recalls. But then, players can easily recall. So there is no real blocking. Indeed, they may recall before you do, clearing the entire building.

Always take yours first.
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Joe Mucchiello
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dinyen wrote:
1. You can take EITHER Permanent Workers or Contractors, but not both at the same time.

This is flat out wrong. If you have a university that yields 2 engineers and you already have 3 of your engineers from supply, you take your last engineer and 1 contractor engineer (if available).
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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dinyen wrote:
2. You can take from either pool, up to the limit


This is the correct ruling as I know it.

In another thread, the designer has made it clear that you can take both your workers and contractors to get the full effect of the building you've paid to activate.


There's also a thread (may be the same one) where the designer corrects the publisher on needing to take your own first. You may take contractors before taking all of your own workers of the same type.

So far I've always taken my own workers before a contractor, but it can have its advantages:

1. Denying your opponent(s) access to those same contractors (until you next retrieve).
2. Putting a split your/contractor with espionage on his building, if you retrieve, the building is still blocked until he does also, and if he retrieves first you get that worker back; so you can place it again before your next retrieval.
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Brandon Tibbetts
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dinyen wrote:
2. You can take from either pool, up to the limit

This is the correct interpretation. And you can "mix and match".
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Kevin Nguyen
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Thanks for a civil response. On a second note, do you feel like it adds any value of the game to use my first reading of the game. Personally i think it adds some more depth on how to apply the high value buildings.
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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dinyen wrote:
On a second note, do you feel like it adds any value of the game to use my first reading of the game.

Personally, I think it would make more sense to remove the building from the deck instead of crippling it to the point where no one would buy it.
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D P
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cosine wrote:
It is never to your advantage to take contractors over regular workers.


When anyone retrieves workers, ALL contractors on the main board go back to supply.

So if you play a contractor onto the main board and someone then retrieves their workers, it then opens that spot up again, hopefully for YOU to use. Thus it can be tactically advantageous for you to place a contractor on the board when you feel an opponent will be opening that space up again for you to use soon.

Alternatively if you place one of your own workers there, you can only use that spot again after YOU take YOUR workers back and hopefully no one else has filled the spot up again.

The implementation of the CONTRACT worker is BRILLIANT in this game. They aren't just extra guys for when your stash has run out. They are tactical fillers!
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Ken Dilloo
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DeathInc wrote:
cosine wrote:
It is never to your advantage to take contractors over regular workers.


When anyone retrieves workers, ALL contractors on the main board go back to supply.

So if you play a contractor onto the main board and someone then retrieves their workers, it then opens that spot up again, hopefully for YOU to use. Thus it can be tactically advantageous for you to place a contractor on the board when you feel an opponent will be opening that space up again for you to use soon.

Alternatively if you place one of your own workers there, you can only use that spot again after YOU take YOUR workers back and hopefully no one else has filled the spot up again.

The implementation of the CONTRACT worker is BRILLIANT in this game. They aren't just extra guys for when your stash has run out. They are tactical fillers!


I agree with this, but it also seems penny wise and dollar foolish. You may eek out an optimal turn that way, but you have also fairly un-optimized your original gain worker action, for the entire game. Your workers are permanent, and do not need to be gained again, through an action, like a contractor.

Anyway, as Brandon clarified, it is within the rules to mix and match. I guess whether doing that is a good play, is more of a strategy thing, or personal preference. If we were playing I would certainly allow it devil
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cosine wrote:


Always take yours first.


Eric, always take what first ?
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Brandon Tibbetts
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He means always take your permanent (player-colored) workers before you take contractors. You have a choice when both are available, but most people feel you should always take your own workers when you have a choice.
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蓝魔
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As stated in another thread .. I do not understand why there is no in game mechanic to remove player workers.

I believe bombing used to kill some of the workers placed on buildings struck, which although does make sense I can see would just lead to an arms race with everyone concentrating on air power.

However, I still feel something is lacking with the game and a way to make Universities more useful later on needs to be addressed.

On first reading of the rules, my group thought that Scientists & Engineers were actually consumed during "Bomb Actions" which although clearly wrong does make for an interesting variant ..
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Ken Dilloo
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The Ginger Ninja
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Contractors

Here is the other thread:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10858445

I don't find this game lacking.
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