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Summoner Wars» Forums » General

Subject: Sleeves - clear vs colored backs rss

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Mårten Cederholm
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So, there are quite a few discussions about sleeves, but here I wanted to discuss only ONE thing.
Clear vs colored.
I just CAN'T decide.

Colored backs:
+ Easy to seperate decks after match


Clear:
+ See the nice backs of all cards.
+ Easy to switch Mercenaries between decks.
+ No waste of sleeves since you can use them on all decks.
+ Cheaper

I have almost decided to get clear (can get the Ultra pro pretty cheap, which seems to be nice), but before I do I wanna get some input if I missed something big.
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Wind Lane
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The other thing to factor in is that the color sleeves that folks are using seem to be slightly wider than desirable while the clear sleeves typically have a length issue - though the closest to "perfect fit" have seemed to be clear sleeves.

So while this is about color vs. clear, where you're okay with your excess sleeve length being seems to be divided fairly cleanly between the two.
 
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Brian Beyke
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I used clear, and I used penny sleeves. It isn't even really noticeable from a viewable standpoint but I atleast know there is SOME added protection. Plus, and I've still yet to hear if this is allowable or not but don't see why not, It's very easy (since the sleeve is so fitting) to have a merc card in front of an unused card from the set you are playing so that it isn't detectable that it is a merc...if that's what you want to do that is.

Let me show you a shot.

 
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Rob K
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You did a good job pointing out the benefits of clear sleeves, and I mainly decided to go with them so that I'd only need one universal sleeve and avoid the "waste" that was mentioned.

I don't like the holograms that the Ultra Pro sleeves have, and despite some people's success with Chimeras, there were too many disappointing stories with them as well, so I went with the Euro-sized sleeves.
 
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Brian Beyke
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I bought (as of right now) 500 chimera standards, and so far have only wasted 4 of them. Those 4 happened to, on two separate times, have 2 sleeves attached at a seam causing rips when trying to separate. So again, only 4 have been wasted.

I did not run into packwide size issues being too small. I have had 2 of them feel snug on a card, and I ended up finding other cards (a different SW card faction than was trying that is) to fit it, so it was a non issue. However, it was in that whole process of sleeving everything that I did notice the fact that there were slight inconsistencies. It wasn't much, and nothing that would bother me whatsoever as there would never be an instance of comparing every single card to the others, just enough to notice while sleeving the whole set.

I think they work pretty good at going relatively unnoticeable (sleevewise)



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Mårten Cederholm
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Thanks for all the answers
This is the sleeves I'm planning to get:


If I understood it correctly the cards will be just a smudge to long when you put them in mini sleeves. I also need the cards to fit in the Master Set Box
 
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Brian Beyke
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So you're fine with having the card exposed some from the sleeve?

Here's the cards with chimera's sleeve in the master set box. With separaters they still fit height-wise three factions high, and no issues on fitting around the edges in the spaces with sleeves on. I don't know how well the thicker sleeves will do stacking fractions three high, it was right about to the top with these.

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Mårten Cederholm
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BTBAM wrote:
So you're fine with having the card exposed some from the sleeve?

Here's the cards with chimera's sleeve in the master set box. With separaters they still fit height-wise three factions high, and no issues on fitting around the edges in the spaces with sleeves on. I don't know how well the thicker sleeves will do stacking fractions three high, it was right about to the top with these.



They look good. What size is that? Link to product?
 
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Brian Beyke
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http://maydaygames.com/card-sleeves-57-5-89-mm-100-pack-usa-...
 
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Mårten Cederholm
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BTBAM wrote:


When looking at your picture it seems to be perfect fit?
Does the cards stick out?
 
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Brian Beyke
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MuRRe wrote:
BTBAM wrote:


When looking at your picture it seems to be perfect fit?
Does the cards stick out?


The sleeve opening is on the right of the cards in that picture, so you can see there is a little bit of overhang, which is really nice, and not nearly as much as the Euro sleeves did. I put the sleeves in my FFG sleeves I used for dominion and while the sleeve was nice and thick, it had a huge overhang and there's no reason (I don't think) for super thick sleeves in this game.

It actually is a nearly perfect fit. I have read some people saying the premiums (and even some people saying the standards) fit the cards differently, but I've yet to run into that issue and I have 15 of the factions.
 
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Mårten Cederholm
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BTBAM wrote:
MuRRe wrote:
BTBAM wrote:


When looking at your picture it seems to be perfect fit?
Does the cards stick out?


The sleeve opening is on the right of the cards in that picture, so you can see there is a little bit of overhang, which is really nice, and not nearly as much as the Euro sleeves did. I put the sleeves in my FFG sleeves I used for dominion and while the sleeve was nice and thick, it had a huge overhang and there's no reason (I don't think) for super thick sleeves in this game.

It actually is a nearly perfect fit. I have read some people saying the premiums (and even some people saying the standards) fit the cards differently, but I've yet to run into that issue and I have 15 of the factions.


Is there any reason for me to get the Mayday over Ultra Pro?
Are they the same size?
 
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Brian Beyke
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Again, it's all preference...but the mayday sleeves are 100 pack, not 50.

Plus you made it sound like the sleeves wouldn't cover the card or possibly have a lot of access. To me, I'd rather have a fitted sleeve.

Honestly, buy a few different packs and try it out, see what you like.
 
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Rob K
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Mårten, the Ultra Pros are sized for Yu-Gi-Oh cards, so they'll be a little wide on the top and bottom of the Summoner Wars cards, and should fit lengthwise (or possibly be a millimeter short). The Chimera sleeves that Brian used give a perfect fit... when they fit. I wanted to get them, myself, but read too many posts on here and on Plaid Hat's forums from people who weren't as lucky and ended up with sleeves that were too tight (due to inconsistent production and quality control). I went with the Euro size to avoid that hassle and headache, but they're definitely a bit longer than I'd like. I could always trim them down a little, but I doubt that I'll ever get around to that.

Brian, your sleeves fit like a glove, and I'm envious... and almost sorry that I didn't take a chance on them.
 
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Mårten Cederholm
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Doomsayer wrote:
Mårten, the Ultra Pros are sized for Yu-Gi-Oh cards, so they'll be a little wide on the top and bottom of the Summoner Wars cards, and should fit lengthwise (or possibly be a millimeter short). The Chimera sleeves that Brian used give a perfect fit... when they fit. I wanted to get them, myself, but read too many posts on here and on Plaid Hat's forums from people who weren't as lucky and ended up with sleeves that were too tight (due to inconsistent production and quality control). I went with the Euro size to avoid that hassle and headache, but they're definitely a bit longer than I'd like. I could always trim them down a little, but I doubt that I'll ever get around to that.

Brian, your sleeves fit like a glove, and I'm envious... and almost sorry that I didn't take a chance on them.


Yeah, these are my thoughts also.
I just can't decide.
I understand that Mayday is an excellent choice fo US buyers, the price for the sleeves are quite low, the shipping is cheap and from what I read here they have excellent customer service, sending out new sleeves, no questions asked.
For me in Europe, it's a little different things. I realise this isn't Maydays fault and as far as I can see they just charge the actual price.

If I actually order, should I get standard or premium?

I just measured one of the cards from my master set, it seems extremely close to 58x88.
 
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Brian Beyke
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I read more people having issues of premiums being too tight, bending some cards. I sometimes prefer a better quality thickness, but for this game the standards (in my opinion) are just fine.
 
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Moosey
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Colored backs:
+ Can't tell which cards are mercenaries.
+ Can't tell cards from their print run.
+ Easy to switch Mercenaries between decks.*
+ No waste of sleeves since you can use them on all decks.*

* You are getting all of one color effectively when you get all clear. You can also get all of one color when you get all black (or whatever your color of choice is).

It is recommended in the rules sleeving so that you can't see if the upcoming cards are mercenaries or not. Agree with this or not, I'm only stating the official recommendation.

Some of my cards (mercenaries in particular) have a very easily identifiabley different colored back. I have the mercenary deck and one mercenary promo. The promo is very different from the deck. But even cards within the deck look like they were parts of different print runs, with large variation in color on the back. (I have double checked to make sure they were facing the same way.) Colored sleeves prevent this.

I really like the art on the back of the cards, and don't play at a serious level, so I like the exposed back. I also have not bothered with deck building of any kind for SW, so the reasons for colored backs diminish for me. But just stating some pros to colored sleeves that I didn't see mentioned in my quick scan of this thread.
 
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Joseph Arthur Ellis
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By the way, I have Ultra Pro yu-gi-oh sized colored back sleeves and you can kinda see through the lighter colors. Best of both worlds right? ;)
 
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Moosey
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Doomsayer wrote:
I don't like the holograms that the Ultra Pro sleeves have


I AGREE!!!!! Which is a shame, cause cost and quality are AMAZING besides that blemish. The blemish usually doesn't get in the way of content, but it gets in the way by adding clutter/obscuring art.

I didn't see Dragon Shield mentioned, but I can say that these are way too fingerprinty for my tastes.

I have some Japaneese/KMC sleeves coming in the mail, and think they may be very good for those who don't like the ultra-pro dot.
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Mårten Cederholm
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I think I have settled on clear.
Couple of reasons, for NOW I won't play tournaments where there is a problem with mixing decks (I will host a tournament in may, but with probably only my cards and it won't be super serious, just introducing the game to some people).
The price, I found a UK site that sells MayDay sleeves, I will take a shot at the Chimera ones, wish me luck.

I think in the end I will just buy enough colored if I ever get into the competitive scene and just sleeve the ones I play the most.

Now, http://www.boardgameextras.co.uk doesn't have the Chimera in stock, does anyone know of any other UK/Europe based company that sells MayDay sleeves for the right price?
 
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Brian Beyke
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MuRRe wrote:
I think I have settled on clear.
Couple of reasons, for NOW I won't play tournaments where there is a problem with mixing decks (I will host a tournament in may, but with probably only my cards and it won't be super serious, just introducing the game to some people).
The price, I found a UK site that sells MayDay sleeves, I will take a shot at the Chimera ones, wish me luck.

I think in the end I will just buy enough colored if I ever get into the competitive scene and just sleeve the ones I play the most.

Now, http://www.boardgameextras.co.uk doesn't have the Chimera in stock, does anyone know of any other UK/Europe based company that sells MayDay sleeves for the right price?


I also sent Coby a message Re: the use of clear sleeves with a merc card in front of an unused faction card of the same type being played. We'll see what he says. I know there are some slight color variations with backs of cards, but I see some of this among lots of factions, and theres no real way of telling what is in your hand. Besides, you could always not fold out your cards all the way so someone could even tell, plus when you only see the top of one on the draw pile and one on the magic, you can't really notice compared to the others, since you aren't seeing them side by side. Also keep in mind, someones deck may have a slightly different backed color print of a card, and it may not be the same for the run that you have.

Also, if you go the route of chimera, don't rule out all sleeves if they seem too tight, there are cards able to be used between all the different individual packaged factions/starter sets, and master set. (IE if I ran into a sleeve a little too tight on a swamp orc card, it may fit easier on a merc card or a guild dwarf or anything else...just make a pile and try them later while sleeving)

Plus, if one is slightly tight, just put those on the summoner setup card, as it isn't crucial to game play. Also, if that is the case (as I just got done with 500 chimera sleeves and every one worked for a card besides two I ripped) any that are a little snug (since the plastic is so thin) just bend the card a little the opposite direction. The sleeve is not more sturdy than the cardstock, so it shouldn't cause issues.
 
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I did a (somewhat) comprehensive study of sleeve sizes for Summoner Wars here:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/716558/best-size-sleeves-for...

One issue with coloured backs is you're locked in to YGO size (I think).

That's fine as long as you know the pros and cons of that size (see the linked thread).
 
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Mårten Cederholm
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BTBAM wrote:


I also sent Coby a message Re: the use of clear sleeves with a merc card in front of an unused faction card of the same type being played. We'll see what he says. I know there are some slight color variations with backs of cards, but I see some of t...


Thanks for the advice.
I really wanna see the backs, and the cards won't be use for serious competition anyways as it stands right now.

Not that worried about seeing mercenaries either, like you said, it would be possible with reinforcement packs to take a card and put it "under" so that you no longer see it, might work.

Just waiting for them to get it in stock again.
 
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Brian Beyke
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Just got word back from Colby and he verified that it is fine to put mercenaries in front of an unused faction card so it has a matched back.

Clear sleeve issue: solved.
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Moosey
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Yes, in the rule book it advises colored sleeves, but says they aren't necessary.
 
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