Giannis Tsekos

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Re: A He says, She says review
I feel like this also. Even if i like Yinsh a lot, something is missing (no idea what it is). Tzaar feels much more "adventurous". I would play a game of Tzaar anytime but with Yinsh i might even refuse a game.
 
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Jon
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Redmond
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I would have to grant that Tzaar is more intuitive than Yinsh. Almost all 'obvious' progress in Tzaar is 'good' but this is not the case in Yinsh.

Completing a line (and thus losing a ring) can spell big trouble in Yinsh. Equivalent traps in Tzaar are often easier to spot.
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Rex Moore
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Yinsh felt sort of "mindless" to me for the first three or four (five or six? ) games, but after that it begins to click quickly as you get a feel for what could happen a couple of turns ahead. Also, there are some very good strategy articles in Yinsh forum -- and Alan Kwan's stuff is great to read. Just a quick read-through there and your comprehension and enjoyment will increase greatly.


Magus And Princess wrote:
Basically, if I flip my 5 and take them off the board I am guaranteeing she scores a point in the process.

Guaranteed, really? (See below.)


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Losing a ring when you score a point - Again, this is something many people can see as a big positive, but it can be frustrating feeling that you are being penalized for being the better player!

I don't follow the logic with this. The better players are the ones who remove three rings first, not one. Yes, you generally weaken yourself a bit when removing a ring. But your (weaker) opponent can't win without removing his rings also... so it works both ways. Stronger players can remove rings without too much weakening.


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Tzaar just runs circles around Yinsh when it comes to giving the player options/things to think about/plan.

Wow, I disagree -- and it may be a matter of getting to know the game more so things don't seem so "mindless" to you. I think they both have equally interesting choices, and Yinsh probably more so toward the end of the game. The Tzaar endgame has very few choices to make, while Yinsh is still going full speed with the entire board as a possibility.
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Rex Moore
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Magus And Princess wrote:
But again we can each have our own opinion and when it comes to the GIPF series... BTW No hard feelings man. I dont think this post should have come off as angry or aggressive, but if it did it was not intended.


And likewise! That's why I said I disagreed with you, and didn't say you were wrong.

Again, just expressing a friendly opinion, there's something about this game that either won't click for you or you're not finding a compelling enough reason to really seek the click... and that's perfectly OK. You're enjoying it well enough as is. (And lightning Yinsh is certainly a good option for you as well.)

By the way, I have both Yinsh and Tzaar rated at 9.5. At the moment I think I enjoy Tzaar more, but that seems to shift back and forth quite often.
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Russ Williams
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As one who plays TZAAR and YINSH, it seems pretty objectively indisputable that the TZAAR board progressively simplifies (at least one space becomes irreversibly empty every turn) as you enter the endgame and thus necessarily the number of options decreases, whereas the same is not necessarily true of the YINSH board since pieces are continually added to it (and only a few times removed in groups of 5).

This is not a slam on either game (FWIW I like them both, and prefer TZAAR), just an observation of something that seems uncontroversially mathematically and game theoretically evident to me.
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Rex Moore
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Magus And Princess wrote:
I guess I am just so used to people getting their panties in a bunch over nothing.

That seems to be quite the norm on BGG, unfortunately.

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Anyways, what is lightning Yinsh? I am guessing its a variant? Ill have to look that up.

It's in the rulebook, actually. It's simply the first one to score five in a row wins. In other words, play to one ring instead of three.
 
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Rex Moore
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Magus And Princess wrote:
Yes but with Tzaar you can do far more things with the pieces on the board. Yinsh is jump and flip where as Tzaar is capture a ton of different pieces, stack etc. Tzaar also has two moves in one turn which makes a huge huge difference in how the game is played and the number of options available. My own game I am designing(Nom Nom Nom!)I have played using a single move on a turn or two moves each turn and again found that it makes a tremendous difference.


Tzaar is just capture or stack, whereas Yinsh is jump a ton of different pieces, line up rings as blockers, etc. Neither my statement nor yours is very persuasive.

Russ was talking about the endgame, where there are very few viable moves for Tzaar. However, while I might be persuaded there's "more options/things to think about/plan" in the beginning to mid game for Tzaar, I'm not convinced. In fact, trying to keep track in your head what might happen when several pieces flip and their colors change, what the board will look like when pieces and rings are removed, etc., is mind boggling.
 
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