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Carcassonne: The River II» Forums » Rules

Subject: Do tiles have to match rivers once the river placemnt is done? rss

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Chris McGrath
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Hey guys,

I was playing River II and I found after all the rivers tiles were placed that there were gaps made that seemed to never be able to be filled.

For example I had a river tile next to a tile i wanted to close a city or say finish a road, but I was unsure if that was a legal move since the rule book really did not say.

I was not sure if it followed the same rules how a field must be bordering a field or a road or a city just like other tile placements. So if this move is not legal there is just going to be some squares you can't place a tile next to be cause the river tiles are done?

Any idea which way this works?
 
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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All the rivers should hook up, leaving only field/road/city edges. There should be no unplayable gaps.

Also remember that the river can't take a U-turn.
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Laurence Parsons
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There is a Start River tile, with one river side. Then a number of river tiles with 2 river sides. Finally an end river tile with one river side. As long as you are always joining the river tiles to each other on the river edge (and not, say, using a road edge), then there will be no spare river edges to get in the way later.
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Chris McGrath
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Hmmm maybe we were not playing the river tiles correctly. I think I will try it on my own and show you guys a screen shot. I will have to look over the rules again. We must have done something wrong then.
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Branko K.
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corran006 wrote:
Hmmm maybe we were not playing the river tiles correctly. I think I will try it on my own and show you guys a screen shot.


Phew, I thought our group was the only one who has Carc games end up like this....

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Sheldon
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This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.
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brian
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polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.

Actually this is an illegal river placement. No U-Turns are allowed so the tile in row 2, column 2 should not have been placed there.
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Dave Kudzma
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.

Actually this is an illegal river placement. No U-Turns are allowed so the tile in row 2, column 2 should not have been placed there.


Hmm, I guess we've always used the fork wrong then. I thought once forked each fork was it's own river.
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brian
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locusshifter wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.

Actually this is an illegal river placement. No U-Turns are allowed so the tile in row 2, column 2 should not have been placed there.


Hmm, I guess we've always used the fork wrong then. I thought once forked each fork was it's own river.

Possibly. There was no guarantee that the tiles in c3/r2 and c3/r3 would come up around the same time and the river would have been dead.

There are two scenarios here that basically would have put the bend at c2/r2 in a legal spot.

A) if it was the 3rd tile drawn, then it could only be placed in c3/r3 with the bend facing downward.

B) if it was the 4th tile (or later) drawn, then it would be placed at c4/r3 (or further downstream). It could point in either direction at this point.

The no U-turn rule is meant to prevent the rivers from running in parallel and adjacent to each other. there would have to be at least one straight piece coming off the top fork before a bend could be added.

 
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Branko K.
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.

Actually this is an illegal river placement. No U-Turns are allowed so the tile in row 2, column 2 should not have been placed there.


Sorry, but I don't see an illegal U-turn here. U-turn means the river goes back 180 degrees towards its source, and this is not the case here.
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brian
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baba44713 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.

Actually this is an illegal river placement. No U-Turns are allowed so the tile in row 2, column 2 should not have been placed there.


Sorry, but I don't see an illegal U-turn here. U-turn means the river goes back 180 degrees towards its source, and this is not the case here.

No. U-turn means it goes back to itself, not necessarily towards its source. And the point of the rule is so you don't get situations where you can't place a tile.

If the tile in col. 3 row 2 did not come up when it did or was already in play, then the branch could not extend - as there are only 2 river tiles with roads on it. So the placement is illegal.
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Disgustipater
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If you always place the junction extending to the left and right of the spring, and don't allow u-turns of any kind, then you will never have any problems.
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Jonathan Warren
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This will become invaluable during your Carcassonne games: http://mjharper.macbay.de/CARnew.pdf - it is quite simply the 'bible' for Carcassonne players. Also, be sure to check out www.carcassonnecentral.com.
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Tony Sanfilippo
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I really do not see a U-turn A U turn is just that a U
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Dan Fielding
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polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.


The BGG description for the River expansion says you can't place anything on the river tiles:

Der Fluss (The River) is a mini-expansion for Carcassonne. It adds twelve river tiles. All the familiar landscape elements are also present.

The river tiles are placed first, after that the game continues as normal. No followers may be placed on the river so the scoring is the same as in the basic game.
 
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Walt Mueller
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Gronak wrote:
polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.


The BGG description for the River expansion says you can't place anything on the river tiles:

Der Fluss (The River) is a mini-expansion for Carcassonne. It adds twelve river tiles. All the familiar landscape elements are also present.

The river tiles are placed first, after that the game continues as normal. No followers may be placed on the river so the scoring is the same as in the basic game.


I think you are misinterpreting these rules. You CAN place a meeple on one of the river tiles: on a road, city, cloister or field section. You CANNOT, however, place a meeple on the river itself. (Please don't drown the poor meeples!)
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Dan Fielding
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It says specifically that you can't place on rivers.

Since there are no rules for scoring or placing a river depiction, there is no need to say so. Therefore that phrase must refer to the TILE itself.
 
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Why some people don't understand so really basic rules?

- the river can't have a U turn (the photo HAS a U turn).
- players can't deploy followers on the river (but they can deploy them in roads, cloisters and cities).

Veeery simple. This not need more discussion.

EDIT: Maybe finishing saying that river cuts farms, like roads and cities does (for people who have this surprising misunderstandings).
 
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Gronak wrote:
polkeroo wrote:

This is generally about what the river should look like after you have finished placing the tiles (though meeples can be placed as the tiles are being put down). At this point it's time to start playing the normal Carc tiles as per usual.


The BGG description for the River expansion says you can't place anything on the river tiles:

Der Fluss (The River) is a mini-expansion for Carcassonne. It adds twelve river tiles. All the familiar landscape elements are also present.

The river tiles are placed first, after that the game continues as normal. No followers may be placed on the river so the scoring is the same as in the basic game.


Gronak wrote:
It says specifically that you can't place on rivers.

Since there are no rules for scoring or placing a river depiction, there is no need to say so. Therefore that phrase must refer to the TILE itself.


The problem is, you are quoting from the BGG description, and that description is currently using a phrase out of context from the rules.

The BGG Description should be used as helpful information (much like Wikipedia), but never as a definitive rules source.

Looking at the actual rules:
"...shuffle the remaining 10 river tiles face down and draw from these before drawing from the tiles from the normal game. These tiles are played and followers may be played as in the normal game with one exception: a river tile may not be placed so that the river makes a "U" turn. Followers may not be placed on rivers. Once these 10 river tiles have been played, the next player plays the lake and then play continues with the normal tiles."

In its proper context in the actual game rules, the phrase is clearly talking about not putting the meeples on the illustration of the river, as there is no way to score them.
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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Also just to add, in case people weren't aware: the reason BGG description should not be used as a definitive rules resource is that it is simply an editable wiki that can be written and edited by any BGG user. There's nothing "official" about it.
 
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Mike Malley
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Man, it's been so long since I've played Carc that I can't remember how we played, but to me, saying "the river can't make a U-turn" is not the same as saying, "the river cannot have a U shape".
 
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IIRC the rules say (or recommend) not allowing an immediate U-turn. The bible is here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action...;sa=view;down=292
 
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Chango wrote:
- the river can't have a U turn (the photo HAS a U turn)
It looks like it has a U turn at the fork, but really it doesn't - that's just the fork). Maybe it'd be better to say neither branch of the river may have an immediate U-turn.
 
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Dan Fielding
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enoon wrote:
IIRC the rules say (or recommend) not allowing an immediate U-turn. The bible is here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action...;sa=view;down=292


gack. Can't see them unless you join the forum. Are they anywhere with open access?
 
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Dan Fielding
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Our tiles don't have a fork. How do you tell River from River II ?
 
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