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Subject: Question re: Find Gate spell rss

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Brian Papa
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can you use it on the same turn you entered the gate?
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Alexander Mercer
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No, you have to cast it during your movement phase. Which is over when you enter the gate (barring any effects I'm not aware of which send you through a gate during upkeep?)
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Becky B
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The spell is used during the movement phase, whereas technically you move through the gate during the Arkham Encounters phase, so you would still have to have an Other World encounter, mythos, and upkeep phase before you could cast the spell.

If you are sucked through the gate because it opened up on you during the mythos phase, I believe you would still have to wait through a whole turn because you would be delayed and unable to act during the movement phase. Experts, is that correct? I'm not 100% sure on that one.
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Joe Pilkus
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Becky,

You have it perfectly correct. If you're moved to an Outer World during the Arkham Encounter Phase or during the Mythos Phase, barring the use of the Find Gate spell for a moment, you will have two Other World Encounters. If you move to the Other World due to a Gate opening during your Arkham Encounter Phase, you will have three Other World Encounters. As you may only use the Find Gate spell during the Movement Phase (in which you're not delayed), you'll always have at least one Other World Encounter.

The Professor
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MC Crispy
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buppyspek wrote:
If you are sucked through the gate because it opened up on you during the mythos phase, I believe you would still have to wait through a whole turn because you would be delayed and unable to act during the movement phase. Experts, is that correct? I'm not 100% sure on that one.
I believe the answer to this depends a little on how you interpret the intent of the Delayed mechanism along with how you understand the effect to be implemented.

When you are Delayed, you have no Movement points but that's about it IIRC (xris, I'm waiting on your clarification here ). Thematically, I interpret the effect as meaning that you are wandering aimlessly in a dazed and confused state - hence your inability to execute Movement. You could think of it as just being Stunned.

You could say that the lack of Movement Points means that you have to "pass" your Phase II as there's nothing you can do, but then Movement Phase spells don't require Movement Points to cast them. Personally, this is the way I lean - no Movement Points means no actions during Phase II. So no Find Gate.

Like you, I'd be interested to hear the counterargument.
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J
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buppyspek wrote:
The spell is used during the movement phase, whereas technically you move through the gate during the Arkham Encounters phase, so you would still have to have an Other World encounter, mythos, and upkeep phase before you could cast the spell.

If you are sucked through the gate because it opened up on you during the mythos phase, I believe you would still have to wait through a whole turn because you would be delayed and unable to act during the movement phase. Experts, is that correct? I'm not 100% sure on that one.


Yes this is correct.

If an investigator enters a gate "willingly" than they enter during the encounter phase and have to wait for the following movement phase before they can cast the spell.

If an investigator enters a gate "unwillingly" (ie the gate opens on them) than they enter during the mythos (or movement encounter) phase and need to wait till 2 turns later to cast the spell (the next movement phase is spent standing up and the spell cannot be casted).

The only really funky interaction is with nightgaunts who technically can send you into a gate during movement but don't delay you. However I think it was ruled that when your hit by a nightgaunt's attack your movement ends to prevent any nightgaunt/find gate abuses.

EDIT: Updated faq explicitly DOES allow using nightgaunt and find gate to have 0 other world encounters.
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Bobby Ramsey
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mccrispy wrote:
buppyspek wrote:
If you are sucked through the gate because it opened up on you during the mythos phase, I believe you would still have to wait through a whole turn because you would be delayed and unable to act during the movement phase. Experts, is that correct? I'm not 100% sure on that one.
I believe the answer to this depends a little on how you interpret the intent of the Delayed mechanism along with how you understand the effect to be implemented.

When you are Delayed, you have no Movement points but that's about it IIRC (xris, I'm waiting on your clarification here ). Thematically, I interpret the effect as meaning that you are wandering aimlessly in a dazed and confused state - hence your inability to execute Movement. You could think of it as just being Stunned.

You could say that the lack of Movement Points means that you have to "pass" your Phase II as there's nothing you can do, but then Movement Phase spells don't require Movement Points to cast them. Personally, this is the way I lean - no Movement Points means no actions during Phase II. So no Find Gate.

Like you, I'd be interested to hear the counterargument.


My counter would be along these lines. I interpret being delayed as hiding from the eldritch horrors you are encountering, which hinders your speed. I cannot move, but I can certainly utter an incantation to get home. If they hear me, I'll be gone before they can get to me.

A delayed investigator doesn't receive movement points, but they still have a movement phase.
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MC Crispy
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AnyMouse wrote:
My counter would be along these lines. I interpret being delayed as hiding from the eldritch horrors you are encountering, which hinders your speed. I cannot move, but I can certainly utter an incantation to get home. If they hear me, I'll be gone before they can get to me.

A delayed investigator doesn't receive movement points, but they still have a movement phase.
Yup, and as has been pointed out many times, there's a thematic justification for any ruling (or misruling)

I don't see why you would be hiding from the Eldritch horrors only during the first Movement Phase after you are surprised by a Gate. What forces you to take this action in this situation vs. any other? I can go with the "cowering in shock" line, but this - for me - would preclude the casting of spells too. But, naturally, YMMV.

I have to admit that the rules only state that
Quote:
investigators do not move during the Movement Phase, and they receive no movement points. Instead, when the player of the delayed investigator takes his turn in the Movement Phase, he should stand the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator is no longer delayed.
it certainly doesn't specifically preclude any activities other than Movement (though it implicitly prevents reading or attempting to read Tomes)
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brian
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The question has been asked of the "ultimate FAQ" to include clarification on what impact being delayed has on casting spells. One camp is that your movement phase is skipped (not just losing the movement points) so you can't cast any movement type spells until you are stood back up.
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MC Crispy
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
The question has been asked of the "ultimate FAQ" to include clarification on what impact being delayed has on casting spells. One camp is that your movement phase is skipped (not just losing the movement points) so you can't cast any movement type spells until you are stood back up.
I think that'd be the camp that in which I'd set up my stall. It seems more in keeping with the theme and (assumed) intent of the Delayed mechanism to me.

Please, nobody ask when we'll see the "uFAQ".
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Tibs
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Aside from theme, it is mechanically sound to disallow any movement actions when you're delayed, because otherwise you could voluntarily receive an Explored token after having 0 Other World encounters, and that's not the intent.

Before anyone says it, of course there are extremely rare situations where you can get an explored token with 0 encounters, but they should be exactly that: extremely rare.
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Bobby Ramsey
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
One camp is that your movement phase is skipped (not just losing the movement points) so you can't cast any movement type spells until you are stood back up.


That will make things so much easier to explain! I think I'll preemptively adopt this description of being delayed in the future.
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Chris Lawson
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mccrispy wrote:
When you are Delayed, you have no Movement points but that's about it IIRC (xris, I'm waiting on your clarification here ). Thematically, I interpret the effect as meaning that you are wandering aimlessly in a dazed and confused state - hence your inability to execute Movement. You could think of it as just being Stunned.

I'm very interested in this issue as well. No way am I able to even suggest a clarification, let alone point to one from the existing rules.

I'm 100% with you on the interpretation you give. I would have preferred that the term "Stunned" was used instead of "Delayed".

ColtsFan76 wrote:
The question has been asked of the "ultimate FAQ" to include clarification on what impact being delayed has on casting spells. One camp is that your movement phase is skipped (not just losing the movement points) so you can't cast any movement type spells until you are stood back up.

Thanks Brian, I can only hope that this camp wins out Well, it doesn't matter too much which camp wins, having it defined is the primary request.

Time to add another sticky note to my rulebook.
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Alex F
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kungfro wrote:
Aside from theme, it is mechanically sound to disallow any movement actions when you're delayed, because otherwise you could voluntarily receive an Explored token after having 0 Other World encounters, and that's not the intent.

Before anyone says it, of course there are extremely rare situations where you can get an explored token with 0 encounters, but they should be exactly that: extremely rare.

One is Plumb the Void spell in the Lurker expansion. It's quite a time saver.And rightfully, limited to one use.
Didn't save the investigators, though, in our latest effort against Eihort. Having sealed 5 locations and our three investigators being infested by the brood 2:2:1,the double brood carriers rolled a 1, immediately after sealing. Eihort, awoke with the doom track exceeding
12.
Our best character and by mistake sole magic weapon wielder lost to the brood,(Skids) we were toast from round 1 of final battle.
Ah, we were so close to victory!
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Tibs
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Isn't Plumb the Void a movement spell? To have 0 OW encounters, the investigator would have to be drawn through a gate during the Mythos phase.
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Alex F
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He was . One of the cult encounters Skids drew prior revealed the next few Mythos cards. How convenient. Fun combos all the way!
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Bern Harkins
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magmaxtic wrote:
He was . One of the cult encounters Skids drew prior revealed the next few Mythos cards. How convenient. Fun combos all the way!


I love this frakking game...
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Trevin Beattie
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mccrispy wrote:
I have to admit that the rules only state that
Quote:
investigators do not move during the Movement Phase, and they receive no movement points. Instead, when the player of the delayed investigator takes his turn in the Movement Phase, he should stand the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator is no longer delayed.
it certainly doesn't specifically preclude any activities other than Movement (though it implicitly prevents reading or attempting to read Tomes)


Tomes generally require one to spend a movement point, which one does not have when delayed. Find Gate does not require movement points; it is simply cast during the movement phase. I agree that the RAW do not prohibit taking any other actions during the movement phase, nor does anything in the DH FAQ.

(I've been delayed by my first encounter in Lost Carcosa while holding a Find Gate spell, so I'm sticking with this. )
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