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Subject: Some folks will only be happy if Zimmerman is beheaded in public... rss

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Boise
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The fact that Eric Holder and Barrack Obama have already weighed in on this, Holder attended a Sharpton rally today, means that there will be blood in the streets no matter what.

The only thing I can say about the president and his top lawman speaking publicly and therefore condemning Zimmerman before he was even charged is that this is reckless and out-of-control racial baiting from the elected leader of our nation. There is no excuse. None. Here's what one fucked up religious leader who wants blood had to say after the news:

Quote:
Collectively, the arrest of Zimmerman and the charges he faces were met with measured relief by some and disappointment by others.

"I think it's important that the legal system carries out a fair process and a transparent process," said the Rev. Marcus Davidson, senior pastor at New Mount Olive Baptist Church, where a large Trayvon prayer rally was held last month.

Davidson, who leads one of the largest black churches in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., said he hesitated to say if a murder charge is enough for justice.

"For real peace and real satisfaction, that will come at the end - after all that takes place in the legal system. I have a lot of trepidation in saying that just a charge will satisfy, not just African Americans, but all Americans. I think this has affected all Americans who are disappointed that we're at this point in 2012."


You may proceed to defend this outright threat of race-based rioting and unrest if you want, but it's clear that the only thing that will satisfy the black religious leaders (Sharpton's posse) in Florida who are behind this shit is for Zimmermann to be publicly executed. Screw the law, screw due process, screw the very foundations of our republic that protect this twat and his rabble... this is about payback baby, this is eye-for-an-eye time. Zimmermann has to die.

Disgusting.

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DWTripp wrote:
The only thing I can say about the president and his top lawman speaking publicly and therefore condemning Zimmerman before he was even charged is that this is reckless and out-of-control racial baiting from the elected leader of our nation.


This was the President's statement:

Quote:
Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the attorney general reports to me, so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.
But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together – federal, state and local – to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul-searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.


He didn't mention Zimmerman. And there's no race baiting in there only sympathy for the family. Of course I'm sure that translates to burn him at the stake for you though.
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Here's Holder's statement:

Quote:
"I know that many of you are greatly — and rightly — concerned about the recent shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a young man whose future has been lost to the ages," Holder told the 14th annual convention of the National Action Network.

"If we find evidence of a potential federal criminal civil rights crime, we will take appropriate action," said the attorney general. "I also can make you another promise: that at every level of today's Justice Department — preventing and combating youth violence and victimization is, and will continue to be, a top priority."


Wow. No condemnation. No mention of Zimmerman. No race bating. So you were just making shit up as usual right? Or was this another joke? It wasn't funny.
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Erik Henry
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And the pastor doesn't seem to be calling for blood either. He just said he wasn't sure just being charged was enough to represent justice and to satisfy people. When he says "real peace and real satisfaction, that will come at the end -- after all that takes place in the legal system" I'd assume he's referring to the sentence that comes from what he assumes will be a guilty verdict -- or maybe he's referring to Judgment Day -- but I don't think he's calling for blood or vigilante justice.

Now if you want to quote Mike Tyson, he is calling for blood. But he's got a face tattoo, so I don't think he counts.



Unless of course Mike Tyson reads BGG, in which case I'd like to say that I think his tattoo is really cool . . . .
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I will only be happy if he's beheaded in public, because if it's done privately and people don't get to see what dicks they are for chopping off somebody's head, it will be a greater crime than any Zimmerman may have committed. If they chop off his head, I hope it gets passed around from person to person, like an olympic torch, all the way from Florida up to Washington State. Maybe the government can issue an app challenge for somebody to figure out the optimal route Zimmerman's head can take so that it traverses the entire continental U.S. before it gets flown over to Hawaii (after the magnetic catapult device bounces it across Canada into Alaska, of course).
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MisterCranky wrote:
see what dicks they are for chopping off somebody's head

OMG. I don't want to see people with dicks on their heads and I ESPECIALLY don't want to see those dicks get cut off if I do happen to see them.
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DWTripp wrote:
Quote:
For real peace and real satisfaction, that will come at the end - after all that takes place in the legal system. I have a lot of trepidation in saying that just a charge will satisfy, not just African Americans, but all Americans. I think this has affected all Americans who are disappointed that we're at this point in 2012."


You may proceed to defend this outright threat of race-based rioting and unrest if you want, but it's clear that the only thing that will satisfy the black religious leaders (Sharpton's posse) in Florida who are behind this shit is for Zimmermann to be publicly executed. Screw the law, screw due process, screw the very foundations of our republic that protect this twat and his rabble... this is about payback baby, this is eye-for-an-eye time. Zimmermann has to die.


Right. Because saying that real peace and satisfaction will only come at the end of the legal process can only possibly mean, "Execute him or we will riot." Never mind that it's legally impossible that Zimmerman be executed (given he was charged with second degree murder), never mind that some black people have a general lack of confidence in our legal system and think that the handling of this case so far has been terrible. And never mind that you're reducing "black religious leaders" to "Sharpton's posse".

It takes keen insight to realize that someone saying they won't be fully satisfied until the legal process has finished actually wants the legal process done away with altogether. Every parent who has ever said, "We won't have closure until the person who killed our child is in jail," is actually an unpatriotic jerk who wants our legal system thrown out.

As long as it's all clear to you.
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Cosmic Charlie
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*check to see who gave thumbs up on initial post*

Figures....
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Matt Thrower
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I have been absolutely appalled by the liberal media's reaction to this case. There has been systematic cherry-picking of sources and information in the press on both sides of the Atlantic on this issue, making the case appear to be transparently one of racism when the truth appears to be that whilst the initial decision not to prosecute was certainly born of racism, and race was a factor in the crime, there may have been considerable mitigating circumstances.

This morning I read this extraordinary comment piece by a journalist I previously respected a great deal. He correctly observes that there are a very large number of important political contexts around racism and gun control as regards this case, but then in the final paragraph basically implies that Zimmerman is already guilty and should be found as such:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/...

In fairness to a lot of liberal people, those who've found out about the continual one-sided reporting have been vocally outraged by it. But it's really shaken my faith in left-wing media reporting: I had naively assumed that the higher standards their supports expected would avoid Fox News style rants. And while, on the whole, that might be correct, I'm shocked and disappointed that in this case, the bulk of outlets and commentators have not only fallen short of those standards, but have probably irreparably prejudiced public opinion to the point where it's impossible for Zimmerman to have a fair trial.
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MattDP wrote:
I have been absolutely appalled by the liberal media's reaction to this case. There has been systematic cherry-picking of sources and information in the press on both sides of the Atlantic on this issue, making the case appear to be transparently one of racism when the truth appears to be that whilst the initial decision not to prosecute was certainly born of racism, and race was a factor in the crime, there may have been considerable mitigating circumstances.

This morning I read this extraordinary comment piece by a journalist I previously respected a great deal. He correctly observes that there are a very large number of important political contexts around racism and gun control as regards this case, but then in the final paragraph basically implies that Zimmerman is already guilty and should be found as such:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/...

In fairness to a lot of liberal people, those who've found out about the continual one-sided reporting have been vocally outraged by it. But it's really shaken my faith in left-wing media reporting: I had naively assumed that the higher standards their supports expected would avoid Fox News style rants. And while, on the whole, that might be correct, I'm shocked and disappointed that in this case, the bulk of outlets and commentators have not only fallen short of those standards, but have probably irreparably prejudiced public opinion to the point where it's impossible for Zimmerman to have a fair trial.


I share your reaction to the media's coverage of the crime but I'm genuinely puzzled at your reaction to the article you linked to. As I read it, he's talking about how black and white Americans see this case very differently and thus, as with the OJ case, it has the potential to be racially divisive regardless.

The final paragraph can be read as saying that Zimmerman is guilty but it's hardly clear-cut. "Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. he has claimed self-defence....To convict him, (the prosecution) must prove that he did not act in self-defense. That's not easy." Finally he says that it's the law itself that should be in the dock -- he's hardly the only person who thinks that there's a problem with the way "stand your ground" laws are written, including some people who are strong advocates for expansive self-defense rights.

Edit to add: I've never had faith in left-wing journalism...or right-wing, or almost any journalism. I've done too many press interviews and seen what comes out the other side.
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I'm sure you can find "some folks" saying anything you want. The parents of Trayvon have consistently said that just want this to be decided by the courts. That's what we have now and I hope the media can take a step back. If this had been handled properly in the first place, we would have never heard about it.
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The only people who have a problem reading are the people saying I have a problem reading. You guys have your heads so far up Obama's fudge-hole you can't see anything but polyps anyway, much less the truth.

When a president comments in the manner he did (with a set-up question) and uses weasel-words to essentially weigh in on a routine (but tragic!) shooting in one of 57 states where shootings, rapes, murders and all manner of injustices occur hourly is beyond reckless. It's prejudicial to the max.

One of you actually doesn't even fucking understand that it doesn't matter what Eric Holder said... it's that he publicly thanked and lauded Al Sharpton at one of his rabble-rousing events for his good works. Anyone who fails to grasp the significance of Holder giving Sharpton the thumbs up in the setting he did is probably beyond all hope of ever grasping abstracts, much less the power of inference.

It really doesn't matter how many schools anyone attends or whether or not one can wallpaper his prestigious home from top to bottom with university sheepskin... if one comes away from statements like what that pastor made and simultaneously fails to grasp the subtlety of how leaders affect and shape public discourse and opinion with their actions then man, they sure wasted a fuckload of cash on an education they probably didn't qualify for to begin with.

Or, perhaps they're intellectually and morally adrift and have lost all sense of whatever meager core values they began with.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
The fact that Eric Holder and Barrack Obama have already
weighed in on this,..."

"This"?!?!?!? "This" *what*?

Point of Information: Neither Attorney General Eric Hold nor President Barack Obama has weighed in on speculating about the legal culpability of George Zimmerman.


DWTripp wrote:
Holder attended a Sharpton rally today, means that there will be blood in the streets no matter what.

Since for nearly a month, tens of thousands have PEACEFULLY marched and rallied from the Philadelphia's Love Park to the police station in Sanford, Florida WITHOUT CREATING ANY INCIDENTS while wearing hoodies, carrying Skittles and posters, and asking for two things -- justice for the slain 17-year-old Trayvon Martin and answers for why he was gunned down by a self-proclaimed Neighborhood-Watch block captain, George Zimmerman -- in my opinion, your unqualified, unjustified, and unsupportable wild-eyed assertions sound disturbingly similar to those espoused by racists.


DWTripp wrote:
The only thing I can say about the president and his top lawman speaking publicly and therefore condemning Zimmerman before he was even charged is that this is reckless and out-of-control racial baiting from the elected leader of our nation.

By the same token, if you're construing that speaking compassionately for justice for victim Trayvon Martin is the equivalent of condemning George Zimmerman, then using that same egregiously faulty logic, by the same token, speaking out for the defense of George Zimmerman must mean that you condemn victim Trayvon Martin.

Note: The problem is, however, that Zimmerman defenders generally don't just call for the defense of George Zimmerman without adding other hearsay and unsupportable comments impugning Trayvon Martin's character and/or making ad-hominem attacks against the victim, his family and/or the people calling for justice for his being killed.


DWTripp wrote:
There is no excuse. None.

And yet, you engage in that which you claim to despise about others doing. How convenient!


DWTripp wrote:
Here's what one fucked up religious leader who wants blood had to say after the news:

Quote:
Collectively, the arrest of Zimmerman and the charges he faces were met with measured relief by some and disappointment by others.

"I think it's important that the legal system carries out a fair process and a transparent process," said the Rev. Marcus Davidson, senior pastor at New Mount Olive Baptist Church, where a large Trayvon prayer rally was held last month.

Davidson, who leads one of the largest black churches in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., said he hesitated to say if a murder charge is enough for justice.

"For real peace and real satisfaction, that will come at the end - after all that takes place in the legal system. I have a lot of trepidation in saying that just a charge will satisfy, not just African Americans, but all Americans. I think this has affected all Americans who are disappointed that we're at this point in 2012."


You may proceed to defend this outright threat of race-based rioting and unrest if you want, but it's clear that the only thing that will satisfy the black religious leaders (Sharpton's posse) in Florida who are behind this shit is for Zimmermann to be publicly executed.

And yet, none of those black religious leaders have uttered or called for any such lynching NOR has there been any "rioting."

Moreover, how is it that you've so conveniently forgotten about the other recent Sanford, Florida case of a homeless black man who was beaten up by the son of a Sanford, FL policeman and who got no justice from that very same police department because they tried to cover up the matter up because the perpetrator had been the son of one of their very own police officers? Need I remind you that the spokesman for the Sanford, Florida police department after that trial said in no uncertain terms, "We failed to do our job at the crime scene (by arresting the son of one of your policeman employees)" ?

Clearly, there's already beem an implied cover-up of sorts going on since we already know that the local prosecutor had declined to seek even manslaughter charges against Zimmerman because of the inept way that evidence at the crime scene had not been secured and collected with any integrity, thus giving Zimmerman's attorney the perfect justification to challenge any DNA evidence since it hadn't been collected without being tainted. (That first prosecutor expressed doubts about whether he/she could win a case with a manslaughter charge because of the lack of untainted DNA and the lack of integrity in the evidence-collection phase at the crime scene.) What's more, we also have video evidence from the police station's own surveillance cameras where a policeman not wearing gloves is running his hands all over Zimmerman's jacket -- which DNA of any blood from victim Trayvon Martin may have been deposited on from the alleged up-close gun shot.

So, no, the Sanford, Florida African-American community would not be long comforted simply by a Guilty verdict for George Zimmerman if the same old abuses by the police department continue to crop up and as long as Florida's Stand Your Ground Law continues to be abused and overstepped. Clearly, the current and/or future Mayor and city council of Sanford, Florida are going to have to do some housecleaning in order to get most, if not all, of the bad apples out of their police department if they're ever hope to correct the perception that African-Americans living in their community don't receive equal justice or protection under the laws of the land.


DWTripp wrote:
Screw the law, screw due process, screw the very foundations of our republic that protect this twat and his rabble...

"Rabble"?!?!?! May I remind you that the ancestors of "this twat and his rabble" were the very slaves who constructed many, if not most, of those noble buildings we today revere as sacred monuments and institutions in Washington, D.C. Yes, some of the "foundations" of this Republic were indeed built on slavery which notably the southern colonies argued must be continued and without which they themselves would NOT have joined their fellow middle and New England colonies to form this nation.

Moreover, up until the mid-1760s, the colonial aristocracy believed common people like us did not even have the capacity to render constructive political policy and thought. The unspoken social order of that day was "'Gentlemen' (the landed gentry) lead. Commoners know their place in society." The colonial aristocracy saw themselves as elite and separate from the rest of society.

What's more: "Eighteenth-century men, women and children of every race, class and region actually believed that Hierarchy was the norm in Nature and in Society: that some people were 'better' than other people and that some people were 'placed' (by a Divine Hand) in circumstances that were better. Poor people were merely thought of as 'the poor.' If one was wealthy, he was 'superior.' That was how the world operated at that time." -- Carol Berkin, American Historian

However, as common people began to take a more active role in the protest movement against England, the norms began to change. Some colonial aristocrats therefore felt threatened by the "inferior people" (commoners) on town councils since they (the aristocracy) could be outvoted by their "lessers."

John Adams, the son of a Massachusetts farmer, always resented the rigid system of class and privilege of his day. The first in his family to go to college, Adams came face to face with that social reality at Harvard University. Adams resented claims of kin, family and blood. He wanted an aristocracy of talent and merit. And yet, Harvard students were ranked by their social standing, NOT by their grades (actual merit). Though not a very good student, Jonathan Sewell, a fellow student also from Massachusetts, was ranked higher than Adams simply because Sewell came from a distinguished family. Upward social mobility was virtually unheard of back then.

When George Washington took command of the Continental Army, he was shocked at first to discover find blacks and white serving together in the ranks of army. Himself a slave owner, Washington was nonetheless relieved to have those black soldiers because he soon realized he needed every armed soldier he can get his hands on. Black troops were only called into the colonial forces after the colonies had met their quotas for manpower to the Continental Army. At first, it was done quietly. Slaves from the states in the northern colonies were told that they'd be granted their freedom after their tour of service in the Continental Army.

More than 25,000 blacks fought on both sides during the Revolutionary War. Some 20% of northern colonies' forces were filled by black soldiers. The Revolutionary War would remain the most racially-integrated war in American History until the 20th century, surpassing even the American Civil War.

When Thomas Paine of "Common Sense" fame arrived on America's shores in 1774, he brought with him a burning rage against the privileged classes and against the injustice of the British system.And yet, to many of the men we uphold as patriots and the nation's Founding Fathers, the common people were "the rabble." To Thomas Paine, however, the common people *were* The Revolution. The simplicity of the language in Paine's "Common Sense" not only made the notion of revolution and breaking away from Britain more accessibly comprehensible to common people but also made them feel motivated to get involved since they were made to feel for the first time that they, too, had some stake in the future country's own destiny.

Holding egalitarian views contrary to those of the rigid class and privilege system of his day, Thomas Paine not only called for independence but also proposed a radical new idea: that ordinary people can understand and participate in government and that they did not need a king. Thomas Paine said: "When planning for the future, let us remember the example of King George III, that sottish, stubborn, worthless, brutal man, the sceptred savage of Great Britain. Remember by his example that Virtue and Ability are NOT hereditary." (And by extension of that same principle, the thrust of Paine's indictment likewise applies to landed gentry and the aristocracy as well.)

So Paine's "Common Sense" not only ended up encouraging and motivating common people to speak out and voice their opinions but also to get involved in politics on the local level. The peaceful marches of those seeking justice for Trayvon Martin do proud to that same tradition by upholding those same principles.

Nonetheless, we must also acknowledge that most ignoble episode which almost derailed entirely the founding of this country and which likewise condemned African-Americans to spend another 89 years in slavery: when the southern colonies walked out of the Continental Congress and threated to break away altogether if the passages condemning King George III for the slave trade and calling for the outlawing of slavery were not struck out of the rough draft of the Declaration of Independence.

The original Broadway musical and later film version of "1776" depicted this little-known history.


> Excerpts from "Historical Notes" by Peter Stone & Sherman Edwards, authors of "1776," the musical play & 1972 film, from the addendum section at the end of the book version of their play published in 1970 by Viking Press:

The first question we are asked by those who have seen or read the musical play and movie of "1776" is invariably: "Is it true? Did it really happen that way?"

The answer is: Yes.

Certainly a few changes have been made in order to fulfill basic dramatic tenets. To quote a European dramatist friend of ours, "God writes lousy theater." In other words, reality is seldom artistic, orderly, or dramatically satisfying; life rarely provides a sound second act, and its climaxes usually have not been adequately prepared for. Therefore, in historical drama, a number of small licenses are almost always taken with strictest fact, and those in "1776" are enumerated in this addendum. But none of them, separately or in accumulation, has done anything to alter the historical truth of the characters, the times, or the events of American Independence. . . .

The Declaration of Independence was debated by the Congress for three full days. It underwent 86 separate changes (and withstood scores of others, including an amendment calling for clear and sovereign "fishing rights") and the deletion of over 400 words, including a strong condemnation of that "peculiar institution" of slavery (accusing King George III of waging "cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere. . . .") and called for the abolition of slavery. This paragraph was removed to placate and appease the Southern colonies and to hold them in the Union.

Jefferson, though a slaveholder himself, declared that "nothing is more certainly written in the Book of Fate than that this people shall be free." And further: "The rights of human nature are deeply wounded by this infamous practice.". . . .

First, though reported back to Congress for amendments and revisions prior to the vote on independence on July 2, the Declaration of Independence was not actually debated and approved until after that vote. However, had this schedule been preserved in the play/movie, the audience's interest in the debate would already have been spent. . . .

Similarly, a (complete) record of the debate on the Declaration was never kept. But in this case, there was even more to go on. Jefferson himself, in his autobiography, provided two versions of the document -- as originally written and as finally approved. Who was resppnsible for each individual change is not known, but in most circumstances convincing conclusions are not too hard to draw. Delegate McKean, a proud Scot, surely would have objected to the charge of "Scotch & foreign mercenaries (sent) to invade and deluge us in blood." And Rev. John Witherspoon of New Jersey, a clergyman and the Congressional chaplain, no doubt would have supported the addition of the phrase "with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence," which had not been present in Jefferson's original draft.

Also, Edward Rutledge (of the colony of South Carolina) must be charged with leading the fight against the condemnation of slavery, being the chief proponent of that practice in Congress. . . .

As to John Addams' line in the play, "Mark me, Franklin: If we give in on this issue (slavery), Posterity will never forgive us": Actually, Addams' actual words were: "Mark me, Franklin: If we give in on this issue, *a hundred years hence,* Posterity will never forgive us." That Addams' original statement seems to predict the American Civil War is remarkable enough; however, we felt that it was too incredibly ironic for the audience to accept at face value; therefore, we abbreviated his original statement for the sake of dramatic credibility.

________________________________________________


How The Issue of Slavery Came Up During the Deliberations Over the Written Content of the Declaration of Independence
A Montage of Related Scenes from the 1972 film version of the musical "1776"




Before the Civil War, Jefferson Davis himself as Secretary of War revised the design for the Armed Statue of Freedom which was to be set atop the Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. so that it would reflect any anti-slavery ideas which were indeed present in its original conception.

> Excerpt from pages 93-94 of "The Story of American Freedom" (1998, W.W. Norton & Co.) by Eric Foner, of Columbia University:

Thomas Crawford's original design for a "Statue of Freedom" to stand atop the Capitol's Dome depicted a female figure wearing a freeman's cap of Liberty. At the insistence of the Secretary of War Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the cap (worn by the figure symbolizing Freedom), which originated in Roman times as a symbol of emancipated slaves, was replaced by a helmet.

___________________________________________


So even the design for the Armed Statue of Freedom which crowns our U.S. Capitol Building housing Congress was altered in order to avoid even the mere hint of a notion that slaves should be freed or be able to buy their way out of slavery.

And now, the final irony:


> Excerpt from the July 31, 2000 Associated Press news story by Lawrence L. Knutson, who has covered the White House, Congress and Washington's history for more than 30 years:

SLAVES HELPED BUILD WHITE HOUSE AND CAPITOL

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The slaves who helped build Washington left their mark in the stones they quarried and the walls they raised for two citadels of Liberty: the White House and the Capitol.

Legislation is moving through Congress to examine the historical record of their work and consider ways to honor those known in the documents of the time only by first names such as Davy, Newton, Moses, Gabriel or Nace.

The sponsors, Reps. J.C. Watts, Republican from Oklahoma, and John Lewis, Democrat from Georgia, have hopes of a monument on the Capitol grounds -- or perhaps a commemorative postage stamp -- marking the contribution of the slaves to the building of the capital city. . . .

Slaves were the largest locally available labor pool in 1790 when Congress ordered a new capital to be carved out of two slave-owning states, Virginia and Maryland.

When the three commissioners in charge of construction started building in 1792 they hired field hands from local small farmers and planters.

In the following eight years, the commissioners also employed skilled labor wherever it could be found, recruiting stone masons, for example, from Edinburgh, Scotland.

But for the heavy, dirty work of city building, local slaves were available to be rented from their owners cheaply, an average of $55 a year.

The owners supplied clothing and blankets. The city commissioners made sleeping space available in a barracks and provided food: cornmeal, pork or beef, and shad in season.

Many white laborers worked under similar conditions and ate the same food, but their employment was voluntary and they could keep the money they earned. . . .

Local historian Bob Arnebeck, in his 1991 book, "Through a Fiery Trial, Building Washington, 1790-1800," wrote that as work began, slaves served as axmen, cutting trees on Jenkins Hill on which the new Capitol would stand. Some helped square logs needed for construction. Others cleared trees and stumps from the new streets laid out by city planner Pierre L'Enfant.

In 1796, according to Arnebeck, 21 slaves were cutting timber for the president's house while 18 white laborers cut logs for the Capitol.

Other slaves worked in the brickyards and stone quarries in which sandstone was cut for both the Capitol and the White House.

Slaves assisted the masons laying stone for the walls of the two major public buildings. The number of workers used at any one time varied, depending on the work to be done and the money available.

In the fall of 1794, five slave carpenters worked with 15 white carpenters at the president's house.

Slavery continued to be a fact of life in Washington for more than 60 years. Slaves worked as domestic servants at the White House in several administrations.

The city became a thriving slave-trading center, and visitors from the North and from abroad often voiced shock at witnessing slaves being led past the Capitol.

Sen. John Randolph of Virginia remarked in the 1820s that there was never "so great, so infamous a slave market, as in the seat of the government of this nation which prides itself on Freedom."

The irony grew even sharper when the Capitol was expanded in the late 1850s and slaves were put to work to help cast the statue of Armed Freedom* destined for the top of the new dome. . . .

_______________________________________

*Again, the design for that statue had been altered by Jefferson Davis who had the sculptor to alter his design sketch for the Statue of Freedom replacing its freedman's cap with a helmet so as not to even hint of any notion that slaves ought to be freed or be able to buy their own way out of slavery.


DWTripp wrote:
this is about payback baby, this is eye-for-an-eye time. Zimmermann has to die.

Disgusting.

Yes, your diatribe was indeed one of your most disgusting ever, especially since you ascribed such egregiously unqualified and unsupported wild-eyed evil intentions to the words and deeds of African Amerians who hadn't expressed such sentiment in the first place to merit the equivalent of their saying, "Screw the very foundations of our republic that protect this twat and his rabble" that you cited.

So in my opinion, not only were your egregiously outrageous conclusions wholly unfounded and unsupportable but also they they stank of the most oobnoxious prejudice imaginable. Indeed, you really were trippin'!

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DWTripp wrote:
Or, perhaps they're intellectually and morally adrift and have lost all sense of whatever meager core values they began with.


Oooh, clever shot there, DW. You're still stretching the quote beyond the reach of sanity, but hey, that's your thing so stick with your strengths.

FWIW, I agree that Holder shouldn't have appeared at a Sharpton rally.
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MattDP wrote:
In fairness to a lot of liberal people, those who've found out about the continual one-sided reporting have been vocally outraged by it. But it's really shaken my faith in left-wing media reporting: I had naively assumed that the higher standards their supports expected would avoid Fox News style rants. And while, on the whole, that might be correct, I'm shocked and disappointed that in this case, the bulk of outlets and commentators have not only fallen short of those standards, but have probably irreparably prejudiced public opinion to the point where it's impossible for Zimmerman to have a fair trial.



I don't know what you're basing that probably on, other than pure speculation. I can speculate too. I speculate that: because those media standards have not been met, and because so many people have so vociferously decried the fact that those media standards have not been met, the members of the jury will either (a) be hermits who do not know about the failed media standards (in which case, they will not be influenced by them), or (b) they will be very aware of the failed media standards, and thus, will most likely overcompensate and be extra careful that George Zimmerman will indeed receive a fair (for him) trial, with the end result being that it will be virtually impossible to convict him even if he is guilty.
 
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Artaxerxes wrote:
(b) they will be very aware of the failed media standards, and thus, will most likely overcompensate and be extra careful that George Zimmerman will indeed receive a fair (for him) trial, with the end result being that it will be virtually impossible to convict him even if he is guilty.


In which case it's not a fair trial, is it?

(My highlights, obviously)
 
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MattDP wrote:
Artaxerxes wrote:
(b) they will be very aware of the failed media standards, and thus, will most likely overcompensate and be extra careful that George Zimmerman will indeed receive a fair (for him) trial, with the end result being that it will be virtually impossible to convict him even if he is guilty.


In which case it's not a fair trial, is it?



I understand that. That's why I put the (for him) there. True fairness is fairness for everybody, not just one person. I should have written "favorable (for him)" rather than "fair (for him)". My point is that the media's failings are more likely to work to Zimmerman's advantage instead of disadvantage. All it would take is one juror who "overcompensates" and Zimmerman could avoid a conviction (even if guilty). I agree with you that biased media coverage is not a good thing.
 
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Artaxerxes wrote:
I should have written "favorable (for him)" rather than "fair (for him)". My point is that the media's failings are more likely to work to Zimmerman's advantage instead of disadvantage. All it would take is one juror who "overcompensates" and Zimmerman could avoid a conviction (even if guilty).


I agree totally. But you called me out on saying it prejudiced his chances of a fair trial, and that's not what you're saying here. I'm not interested in the direction of bias, I'm interested in justice. And all that execrable coverage has made justice - whether he's innocent or guilty - much less likely to happen.
 
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Good Lord! Only in some creepy, alternate universe would two people be seriously arguing that the negative and prejudicial media coverage regarding Zimmerman would actually make a jury overcompensate in his favor.

It's like you guys live in a universe where there are no actual people. Give me an example where a lynch mob mentality has caused a jury to let a guilty person go free. And forget OJ, cause we all know what happened there. Besides which, there's a new book out where the author claims he bought OJ's son's storage locker and retrieved the knife, proving OJ's kid killed the victims.

This is the stuff that makes RSP so compelling, it's like watching a slow-motion train wreck.
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The same thing is said about every media intense trial.

Zimmerman has the right to request a bench trial.
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DWTripp wrote:
Good Lord! Only in some creepy, alternate universe would two people be seriously arguing that the negative and prejudicial media coverage regarding Zimmerman would actually make a jury overcompensate in his favor.


I have no view on whether this publicity will work for or against Zimmerman but it's important to recognize that juries don't work on averages.

If pre-trial publicity absolutely convinces 10 jurors that the defendant is guilty and two that he's innocent and none of them are swayed by evidence then on average the publicity has been negative but the net result is not a conviction.

Then again, voir dire jury selection makes it easier to lower a minority group to zero, so if people's pre-trial biases can be accurately assessed by counsel then a majority bias can turn into 100%.

Bottom line: publicity like this makes a hack of things. I leave you now to posts that may have some actual content, as this one clearly doesn't.
 
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MattDP wrote:
Artaxerxes wrote:
I should have written "favorable (for him)" rather than "fair (for him)". My point is that the media's failings are more likely to work to Zimmerman's advantage instead of disadvantage. All it would take is one juror who "overcompensates" and Zimmerman could avoid a conviction (even if guilty).


I agree totally. But you called me out on saying it prejudiced his chances of a fair trial, and that's not what you're saying here. I'm not interested in the direction of bias, I'm interested in justice. And all that execrable coverage has made justice - whether he's innocent or guilty - much less likely to happen.


It wasn't my intention to "call you out". Sorry about that. Feel free to go back "in". (By the way, you've always been one of my favorite posters here, though I'm not sure if that will make you feel better or worse.) It just seemed like a good opportunity for me to remind anybody who's interested that jurors can be influenced in two directions, not just one, by media bias. They can become prejudicial toward the defendant, and they can also become sympathetic toward the defendant. I naively assumed that nobody would even dispute my point, but Tripp proved my assumption wrong.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
Give me an example where a lynch mob mentality has caused a jury to let a guilty person go free.


I may or may not be able to find such an example. It sounds like a lot of work, with no guarantee of a payoff at the end. A potential problem is that a juror probably wouldn't be willing to admit that he based his vote on a dislike for the media's coverage, instead of just the evidence presented in court. Also, if a juror is subconsciously influenced by the media they won't even be aware of it, and I'm guessing that it's difficult for somebody to admit to something that he isn't aware of.
 
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Zimmerman will face a jury of peers for what he did. To my eye, the system is working.

I am dismayed that the President intervened into what is, essentially, a county level case, solely for political purposes. If he had waited until a Federal Prosecutor had decided to try the case in Federal Court to make the announcement, that would have been one thing- it would be proper for the President to make a statement upon the intervention of a Federal Court into a county/state murder investigation.

But doing so before the process had a chance to really start turning, to my eye, only poured gasoline on the fire and merely made it more difficult for Zimmerman to get a fair trial. If he was concerned that Zimmerman would not have faced a trial in a Florida court, then he could have cracked down on the Dept. of Justice to see if any Federal issues were at stake- but done so behind the scenes.

This posturing for political gain has only gotten in the way of the key issue at hand, which is to determine the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman. Changing the laws on the books is a job for the voters of Florida, not demonstrators in New York and Chicago.

But this is an election year and Florida is a GOP stronghold with lots of tie-ins with New York as well. So I guess this sort of crap is to be expected, even though I would have preferring seeing the President, as the Chief Executive, do all he could to see that the law is enforced, rather than weigh in personally and give sanction to those who don't have the patience for the wheels of justice to turn.

What is everyone going to do if Zimmerman is found innocent by a jury of his peers?

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
What is everyone going to do if Zimmerman is found innocent by a jury of his peers? Darilian


What they always do, riot and burn and loot their own neighborhoods and commercial areas... because that'll show em who's boss.
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