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Subject: Give me the skinny on OSG rss

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Benny
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If you didn't know OSG is getting some reprints from GMT. Also, as of yesterday, they put some existing games on sale. I'm interested in taking the plunge into a Napoleonics system; can anyone give me some input on the various systems available from OSG, the good, the bad, and the ugly (though most of the maps look exceptional!).
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Eric Lai
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Wow, a 40% sale! I've both those games and have played The Coming Storm, its brilliant, very historical. System is easy to learn, there is plenty of replayability. The components are great, the map is beautiful. A pocket grand tactical! A no-brainer buy at 40% off!!! whistle

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Well, the problem is that they are all good and all worth owning.

If I had to get one of them right now that is available and not at all be displeased - The Last Success: Napoleon's March to Vienna, 1809.

EDIT: Garfink's recommendation is equally good.
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Benny
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Wilhammer wrote:
Well, the problem is that they are all good and all worth owning.

If I had to get one of them right now that is available and not at all be displeased - The Last Success: Napoleon's March to Vienna, 1809.

EDIT: Garfink's recommendation is equally good.


Alright! Both of the games mentioned are from the LNB. Is Grand Tactical the best way to dive into Napoleonics generally?
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I too am intrigued and interested in the series, but I'm also one of the people who've never been exposed to it nor seen it. Even at 40% off my question is whether or not I could get these to the table.

It strikes me that it would be easier to get into OCS.
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It is basically Napoleon's Last Battles with a hidden movement system and special rules as need for each battle.

Played without the hidden movement rules (and the very well done light calavary/search rules) it is NLB.
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Steven Goodknecht
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If you would like to know more about The Coming Storm/The Last Success game system, Sean Chick wrote an excellent review of Four Lost Battles which uses the same system. You can read his review here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/425362/a-new-kind-of-cdg.

I wrote a review of The Coming Storm which you can read here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/644851/the-coming-storm-....
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Jon
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This webpage might help you Ben:

http://www.gmtgames.com/s-12-osg.aspx

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Benny
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Capt_S wrote:
This webpage might help you Ben:

http://www.gmtgames.com/s-12-osg.aspx



I've scoped it out already, and it looked good enough that I wanted a hands on response. Thanks for looking out for me and posting the link. It is useful to have here.
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Richard Diosi
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Thanks Benjro....I just ended up buying The Last Success and The Coming Storm (both of which I had been on the fence about). Then I decided to pre-order Drive on Moscow, Napoleon at Leipzig 5th ed and The End of Empire. *sigh* Thanks a lot cry
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Kev.
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Alternative view point from the NBS tactical players and designer:

"The OSG system basically goes back to the SPI era with odds based combat, units with two steps at best, and a CRT heavy with retreats where the key to victory is to surround your enemy.

There were a couple of things I wanted to show with NBS and NapArt.

The attritional nature of combat in the era, where even winning troops were spent afterwards. You don't see that much in Napoleonic games, it is more common in Civil War games.

Also, good troops get the job done, but they generally die in the process. Bad troops run away, but live to fight another day. This creates an interesting dilemma in situations like the war in Spain.

Putting a heavy emphasis on surrounding with zocs lead to maneuvers you don't see on the Napoleonic battlefields where most attacks were attempts to punch holes in frontal assaults rather than trying to walk around your enemies. The rules attempt to show you why in different ways.

Another effect you usually see in games where the units are one or two-steppers is that you get strange effects in relation to size and quality. In some games, bigger units are inherently better, in others smaller high quality units are. Either way, they make the historical commanders look stupid for not splitting up or grouping together units. In reality, a small unit just occupied a shorter part of the line and two small units were equivalent to one large units for most practical purposes.

Of course, the whole command system is different too."

From what I read and can find of which there is little; the Operational level games are unique and offer a view into the bigger picture.

Versus the tactical games with may or may not float your boat based on the above comments.

I just started learning NBS and will likely pick up the OSG title which fights the one same battle Aspern Essling for comparison sake.

From what I can tell the Operational games : The 1X series are purportedly very good.
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Nicola Ciabatti
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[OT] I don't like NBS because each stack can be attacked by one enemy stack only. Not only it seems unrealistic to me at the scale of this game system, but it also "force" players to have thier units concentrated in few big stacks with big holes among them.
I think this will be changed in the upcoming new system (I don't remember its name at present).
So I think NBS can be criticized to be unrealistic much more than the OSG systems.
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I just ordered The Last Success, there was no reason not to. The Grand Tactical System is to my liking. I have played and enjoyed The Coming Storm. It is very playable and a good simulation. I guess the hexes could be slightly bigger and I would like to have good set up cards with pictures of the units. Oh, and the box could be bigger!
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Benny
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That's wonderful. Good for you! I've always wanted to have a haunted house. It's been my lifelong dream!
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DocStryder wrote:
Thanks Benjro....I just ended up buying The Last Success and The Coming Storm (both of which I had been on the fence about). Then I decided to pre-order Drive on Moscow, Napoleon at Leipzig 5th ed and The End of Empire. *sigh* Thanks a lot cry


You are most certainly welcome.
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olivier R
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I don't know whether this will be useful or not but here is my take on it. I find the rules poorly written and a bit vague; sloppy is the first word that comes to mind. The system itself has a lot of historical flavour and some interesting mechanisms. But at the end of the day, it feels quite dated and I am not a big fan of the cult of the new in general but it really shows its age.
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It really does need a bit of updating - like an adaptation of the Crimean war Quad combat system.

Stumpner did a bit of a retrofit with a combat system makeover, among other things.

http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/user/mst/games/lbn/lbn.html

Been wanting to try that.

I buy all these darned games and they don't get played!
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Benny
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That's wonderful. Good for you! I've always wanted to have a haunted house. It's been my lifelong dream!
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Wilhammer wrote:
I buy all these darned games and they don't get played!


Well that's a whole other consideration that I don't even want to begin to deal with.
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Kanalja
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pepe le moko wrote:
But at the end of the day, it feels quite dated and I am not a big fan of the cult of the new in general but it really shows its age.


Interesting, can you be a bit more specific?
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I'm looking to some of these OSG games as well and I am trying to figure out how many of them can be played via the internet (pbem, live Vassal, etc.).

I see one of the sale games has a Vassal module, The 7 Days of 1809. There are also some other OSG games on Vassal.

Does anyone know whether any of the other internet gaming formats also allow play of any OSG titles?

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M St
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I think that with rules as written these games play about as Napoleonic as any other SPI Quad from the 1970s - Battles for the Ardennes, Blue vs Gray, you name it. They have accrued a lot of chrome and the graphics have vastly improved but the style of play is the basic old two-units-every-second hex 3:1-or-ZOC-off-force-retreat-to-kill style. The strong ZOCs make no sense, nor does the typical bloodless pushing. However, if you like godlike powers, the card system of the newer games should please you (you can choose to have enemy reinforcements be swallowed by the ground, or call down thunderstorms at a time of your liking).

The operational games are better but still have problems with the combat system. Guillaume Daudin provided a variant for that that works very well though.
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Nicola Ciabatti
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M St wrote:
The operational games are better but still have problems with the combat system. Guillaume Daudin provided a variant for that that works very well though.

Can it be downloaded anywhere, Markus? Thanks.
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In the new rules, the rigid zocs as it goes for retreats are not as bad - if a unit dies on a retreat surrounded event, roll one d6 - a 50/50 chance will put in the box eligible for rebuild.

Another "fix" is one suggested elsewhere - an attacking unit that advances after combat loses its ZOC until its next movement phase.

That stops the silly and unrealistic surround kills and the God like powers of that. It becomes a lot less "Panzer like".

=================

The components of these games are awesome...some of the best looking wargames out there, ever.

What they do need is a new Movement/combat subsystem.

Much talk of this can be found on the CSW forums.

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FWIW, Carl Paradis is keeping a blog that contains "Living House Rules" for the OSG Napoleonic "The Library of Napoleonic Battles" game system.

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?233@@.1dd28d61!enclosure=.1...
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Duncan R.
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Couldn't resist. I ordered a copy of The Coming Storm
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Carl Paradis
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M St wrote:
I think that with rules as written these games play about as Napoleonic as any other SPI Quad from the 1970s - Battles for the Ardennes, Blue vs Gray, you name it. They have accrued a lot of chrome and the graphics have vastly improved but the style of play is the basic old two-units-every-second hex 3:1-or-ZOC-off-force-retreat-to-kill style. The strong ZOCs make no sense, nor does the typical bloodless pushing. However, if you like godlike powers, the card system of the newer games should please you (you can choose to have enemy reinforcements be swallowed by the ground, or call down thunderstorms at a time of your liking).

The operational games are better but still have problems with the combat system. Guillaume Daudin provided a variant for that that works very well though.


Like Markus said. But there are numerous variants out there that could cater to some gamer's needs if they don't like the rules "As is". So all the games are excellent buys IMHO.
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