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Subject: My personal race rankings... rss

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Adam Wehn
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...are as follows. I will adjust this list when I get Shards of the Throne.

#1 - The Winnu
#2 - Federation of Sol
#3 - The Mentak Coalition
#4 - The Emirates of Hacan
#5 - The Naalu Collective
#6 - The Barony of Letnev
#7 - The Universities of Jol-Nar
#8 - The Yssaril Tribes
#9 - The Clan of Saar
#10 - The Xxcha Kingdom
#11 - The Embers of Muaat
#12 - The Lizix Mindnet
#13 - The Sardakk N'orr
#14 - The Yin Brotherhood
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Guido Gloor
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Most people will disagree with your placing the Yssaril at #8...

...but welcome to BGG What are the reasons for your particular ranking?
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Adam Wehn
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haslo wrote:
Most people will disagree with your placing the Yssaril at #8...

...but welcome to BGG What are the reasons for your particular ranking?


Story, preference, and personal play style. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion about the races.
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Guido Gloor
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OK, as long as it's not something that could be objective like relative power level, I wholeheartedly agree with you
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PracticalImperialist wrote:
...are as follows. I will adjust this list when I get Shards of the Throne.

#1 - The Winnu
#2 - Federation of Sol
#3 - The Mentak Coalition
#4 - The Emirates of Hacan
#5 - The Naalu Collective
#6 - The Barony of Letnev
#7 - The Universities of Jol-Nar
#8 - The Yssaril Tribes
#9 - The Clan of Saar
#10 - The Xxcha Kingdom
#11 - The Embers of Muaat
#12 - The Lizix Mindnet
#13 - The Sardakk N'orr
#14 - The Yin Brotherhood


I gotta disagree with most of this. Winnu before the nerfing, yes but after they are only ok.

Here would be my list without the Shards races.
#1 Yssaril
#2 Mindnet (This is a close #2)
#3 Letnev (I love these guys cuz most people underestimate them)
#4 Hacan (Money Talks)
#5 Naalu
#6 Saar (these guys are impossible to catch if they get a lead)
#7 Jol-Nar
#8 Mentak (better with shards)
#9 Sol (just boring)
#10 Muaat
#11 Nerfed Winnu
#12 Norr (slow start)
#13 Xxcha (Much higher if you let them have stasis caps to start)
#14 Yin (I just can't seem to win with these guys, could be me)

-M
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Adam Wehn
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malloc wrote:
PracticalImperialist wrote:
...are as follows. I will adjust this list when I get Shards of the Throne.

#1 - The Winnu
#2 - Federation of Sol
#3 - The Mentak Coalition
#4 - The Emirates of Hacan
#5 - The Naalu Collective
#6 - The Barony of Letnev
#7 - The Universities of Jol-Nar
#8 - The Yssaril Tribes
#9 - The Clan of Saar
#10 - The Xxcha Kingdom
#11 - The Embers of Muaat
#12 - The Lizix Mindnet
#13 - The Sardakk N'orr
#14 - The Yin Brotherhood


I gotta disagree with most of this. Winnu before the nerfing, yes but after they are only ok.

Here would be my list without the Shards races.
#1 Yssaril
#2 Mindnet (This is a close #2)
#3 Letnev (I love these guys cuz most people underestimate them)
#4 Hacan (Money Talks)
#5 Naalu
#6 Saar (these guys are impossible to catch if they get a lead)
#7 Jol-Nar
#8 Mentak (better with shards)
#9 Sol (just boring)
#10 Muaat
#11 Nerfed Winnu
#12 Norr (slow start)
#13 Xxcha (Much higher if you let them have stasis caps to start)
#14 Yin (I just can't seem to win with these guys, could be me)

-M


And that's just fine, you can disagree since everyone has a right to their own opinion.
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Adam Wehn
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haslo wrote:
OK, as long as it's not something that could be objective like relative power level, I wholeheartedly agree with you


I don't play based on power level, I'm a role player so I try to imagine myself as the leader of the race I play and take on the traits I feel that race embodies.
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Gabriel Marquez
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I like that method of play, as I did the same when I played 40K. It compelled me to act out of the ordinary, and made the game a hell of a lot more fun.
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Martin Larouche
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PracticalImperialist wrote:
haslo wrote:
OK, as long as it's not something that could be objective like relative power level, I wholeheartedly agree with you


I don't play based on power level, I'm a role player so I try to imagine myself as the leader of the race I play and take on the traits I feel that race embodies.


This is something similar for me about the Yssaril.

I agree they are among the more powerful races out there (although i disagree with some BGGers on how much powerful they are... they are good, but not THAT good).

But i absolutely hate to play as the Gollums-from-space. yuk

My own favorite is the Naalu, which are the exact counterpart of the Yssaril in some way. The Yssaril get to act after everyone else, the Haalu get to act before everyone else... both are equally good and as powerful IMO.
And then they have better fighters and can't lose ships by surprise attacks... which is definitely better than Action card draw randomness... again IMO.

To the best of my memory, i have never lost a game playing the Naalu.

I have also found a new respect for the Yin in my last game where i won because of their flagship.
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Fedor Syagin
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PracticalImperialist wrote:
haslo wrote:
Most people will disagree with your placing the Yssaril at #8...

...but welcome to BGG What are the reasons for your particular ranking?


Story, preference, and personal play style. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion about the races.


If we ranking based on that - I would have to say that not in any particular order following would be on the top for me.

The Clan of Saar, Mentak coalition, Naalu Collective, Jol-Nar and the Nekro Virus.

Saar - it is fun to be space gypsy and whole flying spacedock mechanic makes for a fun game.
Mentak - who doesn't like Pirates!
Naalu - Like the background and the whole telepathic thing.
Jol-nar - well just plain fun playing with every tech that you can dream off (no not playing for win - for fun!)
Nekro - so many aspects of the game don't apply to them that it's make it much more relaxing. And it's fun from time to time looking at everyone and say out loud - "hmm if I attack you I can get .... tech, but if I attack you..." etc. Andi it's plain fun to play something that has a goal of destroying everyone else in the universe
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Martin Larouche
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#1 - Naalu
#2 - Ghosts
#3 - L1z1x
#4 - Mentak
#5 - Yin
#6 - Sol
#7 - Hacan
#8 - Nekro
#9 - Xxcha
#10 - N'orr
#11 - Saar
#12 - Muaat
#13 - Arborec
#14 - Winnu
#15 - Letnev
#16 - Jol-Nar
#17 - Yssaril
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JohnnyC Waytobe
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My enjoyment while playing them:

#1 - Ghosts
#2 - Naalu
#3 - Jol-Nar
#4 - L1Z1X
#5 - Hacan
#6 - Xxcha
#7 - Nekro
#8 - Mentak
#9 - Yssaril
#10 - Sol
#11 - Muaat
#12 - Winnu
#13 - Arborec
#14 - Yin
#15 - N'orr
#16 - Saar
#17 - Letnev

Races that (I feel) I'm most likely to win using:

#1 - Yssaril
#2 - Naalu
#3 - Jol-Nar
#4 - L1Z1X
#5 - Sol
#6 - Muaat
#7 - Hacan
#8 - Mentak
#9 - Winnu
#10 - Arborec
#11 - Nekro
#12 - Ghosts
#13 - Xxcha
#14 - Saar
#15 - Yin
#16 - Letnev
#17 - N'orr
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Scott M.
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Oh i like this... hrmm let see..

My enjoyment while playing them:

1 Hacan - Was that hard to figure out!??
2 Sol
3 Ghosts
4 Yin
5 Letnev
6 L1Z1X
7 Muaat
8 Saar
9 Jol-Nar
10 Naalu
11 Winnu
12 N'orr
13 Arborec
14 Yssaril
15 Mentak
16 Nekro
17 Xxcha

Races that (I feel) I'm most likely to win using:

1 Letnev
2 L1Z1X
3 Yssaril
4 Nekro
5 Ghosts
6 Jol-Nar
7 Saar
8 Winnu
9 Xxcha
10 Hacan
11 Sol
12 Yin
13 Muaat
14 Naalu
15 N'orr
16 Arborec
17 Mentak

(format stolen from above)
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Martin DeOlden
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My enjoyment while playing them:

1 Hacan - MY favorite race. I like to think of them as a more mercantile Kzinti.
2 Winnu - I love how there abilities and racial abilities seem to give theme jack of all trade aspect.
3 Saar - Everything they do seems to break some TI3 rule somewhere and they are fun to play.
4 Mentak - Pirates are just fun in general.
5 Xxcha - I like how most people will begin the game underestimating this race due to their lack of power which means I usually get left alone long enough for them to begin to flourish.
6 Sol - Sustain damage Carriers and lots of GF.
7 Arborec - GF that act as mini Space Docks.
8 Yin - Fun to play but they can be easily disrupted in the early game.
9 Ghosts
10 Yssaril - I love Action Cards.
11 Jol-Nar
Last: Letnev, L1Z1X, Muaat, Naalu, N'orr, Nekro (I am not a player whose playstyle is warlike in this game so I do not find these races fun to play. I enjoy Politics, Trading, and Diplomatic races over these.)


Races that (I feel) I'm most likely to win using:

1 Winnu
2 Hacan
3 Yssaril
4 Saar
5 Xxcha
6 Jol-Nar
7 Sol
8 Arborec
9 Ghosts
10 Mentak
11 Yin
12 Muaat
13 N'orr
14 Letnev
15 L1Z1X
16 Nekro
17 Naalu

The Winnu are still strong in my group as we do not play with the FAQ Racial Technology. We felt is was to nerfed for its own good so we lessened it to this:
Cost 6 and like the Yssaril Skip ability you cannot use it twice in a row but must have an action in between uses.
This seemed to be the fix we were looking for and has worked in our games.
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Brian Petersen
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Oh i like this... hrmm let see..

My enjoyment while playing them:

1 Sol
2 Jol-Nar
3 L1z1x
4 Letnev
5 Nekro
6 Saar
7 Mentak
8 Saar
9 Yin
10 N'orr
11 Xxcha

Ghosts are highly dependent on map set-up. The last time I played them, I didn't have fun, partly because it was a teaching game, so we played mostly vanilla, which was exacerbated by Tech Preliminaries, Secret Objectives, and an aggressive neighbor. I haven't yet had the pleasure of playing Hacan, Yssaril, Arborec, Muatt, or Winnu.

Races that (I feel) I'm most likely to win using:

1 Naalu
2 Jol-Nar
3 L1z1x
4 Sol
5 Letnev
6 Yin
7 Xxcha
8 Mentak
9 N'orr
10 Nekro
11 Saar

Ghosts are too situational, and I haven't played the others yet. Based on the meta-game of my play-group and my play-style, I'd put Winnu up there with Letnev, Arborec up there with Sol, and surprisingly, Hacan, Yssaril and Muatt at the bottom.

As Hacan, the other players wouldn't trade with me. As Yssaril, all my assaults would be pre-empted. As Muatt, my starting War Sun would be destroyed by Round 3 due to bad rolls and lucky opponent AC draws.

(format stolen from above)
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Steve Cates
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After four plays with Muuat, Letnev, Sol, and Jol-Nar the races as I see them:

1. Jol-Nar (love exploring the tech tree, other races seem to be on a rail)
2. Sol (GF spread like rabbits lots of planets to manage gives you more options)
3. Hacan (I have not seen in our games but I want to play them next)
4. Norr (+1 combat, go on the warpath or at least threaten it early)
5. Muuat (crazy theme)
6. L1z1x
7. Naalu
8. Yssaril (looking forward to playing them, didn't really do a whole lot in the one game I saw)
9. Clan
10. Xxcha
11. Winnu (this thread makes me want to try them now)
12. Letnev (boring)
13. Yin (boring)
14. Mentak (no idea, haven't seen in action)
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Scott Randolph
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PracticalImperialist wrote:
malloc wrote:
PracticalImperialist wrote:
...are as follows. I will adjust this list when I get Shards of the Throne.

#1 - The Winnu
#2 - Federation of Sol
#3 - The Mentak Coalition
#4 - The Emirates of Hacan
#5 - The Naalu Collective
#6 - The Barony of Letnev
#7 - The Universities of Jol-Nar
#8 - The Yssaril Tribes
#9 - The Clan of Saar
#10 - The Xxcha Kingdom
#11 - The Embers of Muaat
#12 - The Lizix Mindnet
#13 - The Sardakk N'orr
#14 - The Yin Brotherhood


I gotta disagree with most of this. Winnu before the nerfing, yes but after they are only ok.

Here would be my list without the Shards races.
#1 Yssaril
#2 Mindnet (This is a close #2)
#3 Letnev (I love these guys cuz most people underestimate them)
#4 Hacan (Money Talks)
#5 Naalu
#6 Saar (these guys are impossible to catch if they get a lead)
#7 Jol-Nar
#8 Mentak (better with shards)
#9 Sol (just boring)
#10 Muaat
#11 Nerfed Winnu
#12 Norr (slow start)
#13 Xxcha (Much higher if you let them have stasis caps to start)
#14 Yin (I just can't seem to win with these guys, could be me)

-M


And that's just fine, you can disagree since everyone has a right to their own opinion.


After 25+ games with veteran, skilled players, I have to agree with the post responder {Malloc} above. Yssaril, Mindnet, Hacan...definitely all top 3, Winnu (even with the nerf), Naalu and Letnev a close tie up there for 4th. Bottom 3, Xxcha, N'Orr and Yin, pretty much the standard consensus (IMHO & experience) as the worst and hardest to win with (which doesn't mean I don't like them, and am unwilling to play them, they are just harder to win with). The rest are pretty evenly balanced with strengths and weaknesses. The one item I disagree with on the post responder {Malloc} is the "boring" ranking...the N'Orr are categorically the most "dull and boring" Great Race, one which the game designers unfortunately must have thrown in at the last minute when they were just simply out of ideas.
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Bill Norton
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Are we ranking the strongest races or the races we like to play the most or the races we are most likely to win with?

Bill
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Martin DeOlden
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It seems to be 2 lists
Your first is a list of your personal favorite races to play and the second is the races you feel you would have the best chance of winning the easiest with when playing
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Martin Larouche
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SFRR wrote:
PracticalImperialist wrote:
malloc wrote:
PracticalImperialist wrote:
...are as follows. I will adjust this list when I get Shards of the Throne.

#1 - The Winnu
#2 - Federation of Sol
#3 - The Mentak Coalition
#4 - The Emirates of Hacan
#5 - The Naalu Collective
#6 - The Barony of Letnev
#7 - The Universities of Jol-Nar
#8 - The Yssaril Tribes
#9 - The Clan of Saar
#10 - The Xxcha Kingdom
#11 - The Embers of Muaat
#12 - The Lizix Mindnet
#13 - The Sardakk N'orr
#14 - The Yin Brotherhood


I gotta disagree with most of this. Winnu before the nerfing, yes but after they are only ok.

Here would be my list without the Shards races.
#1 Yssaril
#2 Mindnet (This is a close #2)
#3 Letnev (I love these guys cuz most people underestimate them)
#4 Hacan (Money Talks)
#5 Naalu
#6 Saar (these guys are impossible to catch if they get a lead)
#7 Jol-Nar
#8 Mentak (better with shards)
#9 Sol (just boring)
#10 Muaat
#11 Nerfed Winnu
#12 Norr (slow start)
#13 Xxcha (Much higher if you let them have stasis caps to start)
#14 Yin (I just can't seem to win with these guys, could be me)

-M


And that's just fine, you can disagree since everyone has a right to their own opinion.


After 25+ games with veteran, skilled players, I have to agree with the post responder {Malloc} above. Yssaril, Mindnet, Hacan...definitely all top 3, Winnu (even with the nerf), Naalu and Letnev a close tie up there for 4th. Bottom 3, Xxcha, N'Orr and Yin, pretty much the standard consensus (IMHO & experience) as the worst and hardest to win with (which doesn't mean I don't like them, and am unwilling to play them, they are just harder to win with). The rest are pretty evenly balanced with strengths and weaknesses. The one item I disagree with on the post responder {Malloc} is the "boring" ranking...the N'Orr are categorically the most "dull and boring" Great Race, one which the game designers unfortunately must have thrown in at the last minute when they were just simply out of ideas.


I doubt the N'orr was *thrown-in*.
The basic 6 races are made for each of the different aspects of the game.
The trading Hacan,
The ground forces specialist Sol,
The diplomatic and political Xxcha,
The tech-oriented Jol-Nar,
The warfare N'orr,
... and the Letnev which were more or less the jack-of-all-trades.

all the other races were grafted on after those basic 6. The N'orr were definitely not out-of-place in that basic set-up. They were a quite obvious race to do (and almost a necessary one).

The thing that happenned with the N'orr is that with further races mixed-in, racial powers went crazier and crazier with each new addition to the point that the original 6 went duller and duller, with the N'orr baring the blunt of it.
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JohnnyC Waytobe
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My biggest problem with the N'orr isn't a lack of interest - it's a lack of starting units. They are so significantly hampered out the gate that you're doing nothing but catch-up for the rest of the game. I feel the only viable N'orr strategy (other than a VERY tight alliance with someone who is actively helping you and trusts you enough to return the favor later) is a first-turn Warfare SC rush of a PDS-less neighboring HS.
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Tom Rento
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After about 15-20 games with all the expansions (and with some handpicked SA rulings, no changes to races however)..here is our gaming groups top 5: (races that finish top3 in most games)

1. Yssaril:
Stalling becomes really important late in the game, you just pick (for example) leadership and just stall until others just run out of tokens. With expansion POs, you can really do nice "point stabbing" as you dont have to be afraid of retaliation.

2. L1z1x:
Military powerhouse. Nice starting fleet and good tech path. Really powerful if they can get that speed tech early in the game. "Boosted" dread make them even better (takes 2 hproduction however)

3. Hacan:
Trade goods give a lot of flexibility. A bit stronger with other "trade 3" races in the game as trade is taken every round. Usually first race to get War Suns in our games.

4. Naalu:
With expansion objectives, people dont bother with you as you can escape whenever you like. Usually feels like a waste of command token to attack Naalu.

5. Arborec:
Those producing GFs really help a lot. Also expanding with them is quite fast if you manage to get that race tech early. Dunno if they are that powerful really, but they just seem to do well in our games

Also "OK" are Letnev, Ghosts, Winnu (nerfed), Muat, Sol, Saar and Mentak.

Worst for us: Jolnar, Yin, Xxcha and Norr.
Because we expand aggressive early (that leads to early conflicts), Jolnar seems to be in trouble everytime with their -1 combat.

Then again, expert player with OK / bad race is much better than bad player with good race. In our games, same players are in top3 almost everytime, no matter what their race is.
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Martin Larouche
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eltomi wrote:
Then again, expert player with OK / bad race is much better than bad player with good race. In our games, same players are in top3 almost everytime, no matter what their race is.


This really.

The "weakness" of the N'orr is greatly exagerated IMO. As is the "awesome" power of the Yssaril. Those two extremes are really not that far appart from each other in my experience.

Their +1 is really strong in combat. In all our games, the N'orr are usually left alone. No one wants to pick a fight with them. This alone makes up for their bad start (again IMO). They have control over what happens in their neighborhood, which is definitely more than i can say of most other races, like Jol Nar, which are easy to push around (especially if you are N'orr).
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I had the Naalu last time and I was dissapointed: Of course you have to focus on fighters, but to retrat you have to have a CC near the attacked fleet. So in the first tactical phase of a round others can attack you and you cant retreat, isnt it?
Muaat: The begin with a War Sun, you are researching more War Sun technologies and build up 2 fleets with a War Sun+++ and others (fighters and others for example. How do you want to stop them?
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Jon Horne
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gracjanski wrote:
I had the Naalu last time and I was dissapointed: Of course you have to focus on fighters, but to retrat you have to have a CC near the attacked fleet. So in the first tactical phase of a round others can attack you and you cant retreat, isnt it?

If you use the “Strategic Retreat” option from Shattered Empire, it makes their ability more flexible. You just have to have some extra Strategy Counters. Buy their racial Tech, Telepathic Mind Weapon, and other players will be reluctant to attack you at all.

The real strength of the Naalu is their 0 Initiave. It works great when you need to attack before someone plays Diplomacy SC on you, or to play Diplomacy SC yourself to prevent such an attack. Also, I don’t know how many games I’ve played where the winner was the person who scored first in the Status Phase. The Naalu always score first.

gracjanski wrote:
Muaat: The begin with a War Sun, you are researching more War Sun technologies and build up 2 fleets with a War Sun+++ and others (fighters and others for example. How do you want to stop them?

The Muaat’s special abilities are mediocre. An early, slow War Sun is good, but it isn’t great. The ability to go through a Supernova rarely comes up. Don’t be afraid of War Suns. Yeah, they kick butt, but 12 resources of Cruisers and Destroyers kick more butt.

Besides, this isn’t Risk. When you say “stop them,” remember that the goal is to score Victory Points, not wipe out their navy. Fielding expensive War Suns only helps with Objectives that require Space Battles, blockades, or conquering planets. Plus, they only get two. Attack where they are weak, or play Action Cards on them, or refuse to trade with them – there are plenty of ways to slow down any opponent.
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