Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Hamsterrolle» Forums » Rules

Subject: A few questions after two plays rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Joel Moots
United States
Riley
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Do pieces have to be entirely contained between the inner sides of its section, or can you place a piece that overlaps the top or extends past the edge of a border? We play that it must be entirely within, or else situations could arise where a piece is in two sections.

2. Come to think of it, when pieces fall, they may fall such that they are in two sections. Are the color limits observed for both sections? Do you make a judgement call saying its > 50% in this section?

3. You are allowed to hold onto the ring while placing a piece. When you let go, must you let go all at once, or can you slowly let go to allow it to gently come to its new steady state?

4. Similarly, when placing a piece, can you slowly place it or even intentionally apply pressure so that the ring is closer to where its new steady state will be, before letting go of the piece?

5. If you accidentally drop the piece you are playing, and it stays in the ring in a location that would've violated the placement rules and didn't knock any other pieces out, do you pick up your piece and lose your turn? Do you pick up your piece and try again?

-joel
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Brokaw
United States
Hillsboro
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
It's not a damn moped!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here is the way we play these questions. Not official, but we always have fun:

jmoots wrote:
1. Do pieces have to be entirely contained between the inner sides of its section, or can you place a piece that overlaps the top or extends past the edge of a border? We play that it must be entirely within, or else situations could arise where a piece is in two sections.
We allow pieces to hang out. Also, if someone is able to have a piece extend into a second arc, we would allow that (but that is REALLY hard and shouldn't come up much). In that case I would say the color is located in the "bottom most" arc, but not the new arc it extends into. (Again, this is an odd situation and I've personally never seen it.) If a piece ever touches the table then it is considered to have fallen and needs to be claimed by the person whose turn it is.

jmoots wrote:
2. Come to think of it, when pieces fall, they may fall such that they are in two sections. Are the color limits observed for both sections? Do you make a judgement call saying its > 50% in this section?
Why does this matter? If it has fallen and stayed in the ring, it surely is in sections that are no longer legal arcs for placement? (Remember, you can only place pieces in the forward most arc or beyond.)

jmoots wrote:
3. You are allowed to hold onto the ring while placing a piece. When you let go, must you let go all at once, or can you slowly let go to allow it to gently come to its new steady state?
Let go as slow as you want. If that helps you win, then you are better at letting go than me. If pieces are going to fall, they're going to fall. I use a "3 second rule" after a player's turn is done before the next player's turn begins. Those 3 seconds belong to the original player (and anything that falls during that time period he has to take.)

jmoots wrote:
4. Similarly, when placing a piece, can you slowly place it or even intentionally apply pressure so that the ring is closer to where its new steady state will be, before letting go of the piece?
Absolutely.

jmoots wrote:
5. If you accidentally drop the piece you are playing, and it stays in the ring in a location that would've violated the placement rules and didn't knock any other pieces out, do you pick up your piece and lose your turn? Do you pick up your piece and try again?
I let it stay as long as no part of it is touching the table. It's rare, and could try to be abused, but it is really hard to have a piece drop from where you wanted to place it but stay in the ring.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Nathan
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
jmoots wrote:
1. Do pieces have to be entirely contained between the inner sides of its section, or can you place a piece that overlaps the top or extends past the edge of a border? We play that it must be entirely within, or else situations could arise where a piece is in two sections.


We routinely try to do this on purpose, and count a piece as being in the section which it ultimately is resting on - by tracing a path of the other pieces it is resting on until we arrive at one of the black section dividers - which often results in the ability to place pieces in the opposite direction of play because the next section can be before the last piece played.

Additionally, we cantilever some of the longer flat pieces into the wheel, pointing towards the center, so that we can place other pieces on top of them.

Quote:
2. Come to think of it, when pieces fall, they may fall such that they are in two sections. Are the color limits observed for both sections? Do you make a judgement call saying its > 50% in this section?


Again, we trace a path to determine, but this doesn't come up much in our games, because we're rarely placing new pieces towards the bottom of the wheel (where pieces would have fallen)

Quote:
3. You are allowed to hold onto the ring while placing a piece. When you let go, must you let go all at once, or can you slowly let go to allow it to gently come to its new steady state?


We definitely do it slowly.

Quote:
4. Similarly, when placing a piece, can you slowly place it or even intentionally apply pressure so that the ring is closer to where its new steady state will be, before letting go of the piece?


We absolutely do this.

Quote:
5. If you accidentally drop the piece you are playing, and it stays in the ring in a location that would've violated the placement rules and didn't knock any other pieces out, do you pick up your piece and lose your turn? Do you pick up your piece and try again?


Neither! We play that it gets to stay. I interpret the situation this way: let's say it wasn't an accident. You're placing high up in a corner (say 2 o'clock). You do your best to place it in the wheel, but, short of licking the piece, there is no legal placement which would cause the piece to stay in the wheel. So you set it on its shelf, and let it go - which is exactly what you would do with a legal placement in all other circumstances. So...then it falls out, and then you follow the normal falling out rules - if it stays in the wheel, you're good!

Quote:
-joel


JN
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Moots
United States
Riley
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
brokasaphasia wrote:
We allow pieces to hang out. Also, if someone is able to have a piece extend into a second arc, we would allow that (but that is REALLY hard and shouldn't come up much). In that case I would say the color is located in the "bottom most" arc, but not the new arc it extends into. (Again, this is an odd situation and I've personally never seen it.)

This comes up a lot for us, particularly for folks that place the pieces off to the side of the barriers. We have decided to do similar to what you say, and count it only as being in the section where it first touches (i.e., farthest away from the playing direction.) A corollary of that is that we don't allow extending backwards into the previous section, unless that bit is not in contact.

brokasaphasia wrote:
Why does this matter? If it has fallen and stayed in the ring, it surely is in sections that are no longer legal arcs for placement? (Remember, you can only place pieces in the forward most arc or beyond.)

That's mostly (though not always) true when playing one of your piece, but when a player is passing, it comes up more than you think. Regardless, we rule it the same as above.

brokasaphasia wrote:
Let go as slow as you want. If that helps you win, then you are better at letting go than me. If pieces are going to fall, they're going to fall.

It makes a huge difference. If you just let go, instantaneously the wheel will rock forwards and backwards. If you gently let go, so that it brushes your fingers till it reaches balance, it won't rock.

brokasaphasia wrote:
jmoots wrote:
4. Similarly, when placing a piece, can you slowly place it or even intentionally apply pressure so that the ring is closer to where its new steady state will be, before letting go of the piece?
Absolutely.

In the same vain, are you allowed to roll/tilt the ring forwards a bit with your other hand, e.g., to make a barrier more horizontal, while placing a piece?


Thanks for your answers (both of you). Our boys love this game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Brokaw
United States
Hillsboro
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
It's not a damn moped!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jmoots wrote:
brokasaphasia wrote:
Why does this matter? If it has fallen and stayed in the ring, it surely is in sections that are no longer legal arcs for placement? (Remember, you can only place pieces in the forward most arc or beyond.)

That's mostly (though not always) true when playing one of your piece, but when a player is passing, it comes up more than you think. Regardless, we rule it the same as above.
Ah yes, the "passing rule". I had forgotten about it... we've never again implemented that rule as the first time we allowed "Passing" it degenerated the game away from the fun of trying to always play forward. Sorry about my confusion.

jmoots wrote:
brokasaphasia wrote:
Let go as slow as you want. If that helps you win, then you are better at letting go than me. If pieces are going to fall, they're going to fall.

It makes a huge difference. If you just let go, instantaneously the wheel will rock forwards and backwards. If you gently let go, so that it brushes your fingers till it reaches balance, it won't rock.
You're right, but I just assumed this rule didn't need any more specificity. Let go however you want... whatever helps you win. The lack of a rule governing "how quickly you are allowed to let go" doesn't harm this game (in my opinion). Sorry my original response was not clear.

jmoots wrote:
brokasaphasia wrote:
jmoots wrote:
4. Similarly, when placing a piece, can you slowly place it or even intentionally apply pressure so that the ring is closer to where its new steady state will be, before letting go of the piece?
Absolutely.

In the same vain, are you allowed to roll/tilt the ring forwards a bit with your other hand, e.g., to make a barrier more horizontal, while placing a piece?
Another disclaimer is due here (in addition to my admission that we don't allow "passing"): We don't allow 2 hands and we never allow touching the wheel directly with your hand. We allow a player to use one hand, set a piece in the wheel, apply pressure to the wheel through the piece he/she is placing, and then let go of that piece as slowly/gently as they wish. However, if ANYTHING falls OUT of the ring before the new piece has been "let go of", the player must take the new piece back as well.

BTW, we also use a 3 second rules after a player's turn is over. If during a 3 second count after a player "let's go" anything falls out, it belongs to that player. If something falls out after that time but before the next player's piece comes in contact with the ring, we chalk that up to Chaos theory and remove it from the game.

I'm curious more about your experience with the Passing rule. Do you like it? Does it help a "come from behind victory"? Does it make the game better or worse in your opinion? (After my first experience with it, it just seemed... against the spirit of the game and I stopped teaching it.)

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Moots
United States
Riley
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
brokasaphasia wrote:
Another disclaimer is due here (in addition to my admission that we don't allow "passing"): We don't allow 2 hands and we never allow touching the wheel directly with your hand. We allow a player to use one hand, set a piece in the wheel, apply pressure to the wheel through the piece he/she is placing, and then let go of that piece as slowly/gently as they wish.

Ah, that explains the confusion. Yeah, we allow holding the wheel with the other hand b/c it's in the rules. I suppose though, that in the end, there's no real difference to applying pressure/releasing the piece slowly and releasing the wheel slowly with the other hand -- in both cases you're trying to get the wheel to its new balance point without rocking.

brokasaphasia wrote:
I'm curious more about your experience with the Passing rule. Do you like it? Does it help a "come from behind victory"? Does it make the game better or worse in your opinion? (After my first experience with it, it just seemed... against the spirit of the game and I stopped teaching it.)

We quite like the passing rule. You're still moving the balance point forward, just by a much smaller degree, so the game doesn't stagnate. It generally gets used by someone close to winning who's chicken to place one of their pieces, so it does often allow other, bolder players to catch up.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Italian Seismologist
United Kingdom
norwich
Norfolk
flag msg tools
badge
[The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was not convincing people he didn't exist, but convincing them that he was God.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jmoots wrote:
1. Do pieces have to be entirely contained between the inner sides of its section, or can you place a piece that overlaps the top or extends past the edge of a border? We play that it must be entirely within, or else situations could arise where a piece is in two sections.

2. Come to think of it, when pieces fall, they may fall such that they are in two sections. Are the color limits observed for both sections? Do you make a judgement call saying its > 50% in this section?

3. You are allowed to hold onto the ring while placing a piece. When you let go, must you let go all at once, or can you slowly let go to allow it to gently come to its new steady state?

4. Similarly, when placing a piece, can you slowly place it or even intentionally apply pressure so that the ring is closer to where its new steady state will be, before letting go of the piece?

5. If you accidentally drop the piece you are playing, and it stays in the ring in a location that would've violated the placement rules and didn't knock any other pieces out, do you pick up your piece and lose your turn? Do you pick up your piece and try again?

-joel


1) our house rule is the the top (or furthest in direction of travel) innermost edge is the 'active' edge. it defines which section the piece is in. likewise the top-inner edge of the section dividers are the boundary line for the purpose of colour placement. in the instance where you move a piece in the bottom two sections, we use the bottom edge as the active edge for the pieces (still using top edge for the section boundaries).

i also played with someone else's set where they marked each piece with a point (a tiny arrow sticker). each colour had it in the same place but off centre so it could be placed either way. the point of that arrow then defined where that block was (again using top edge for the boundaries)

2) see 1

3 and 4)we dont allow holding the ring at all. nor do we allow forcibly moving the ring with the active piece. a piece becomes the active piece as soon as it has touched any other piece or the ring. we allow you to keep hold of the piece while the ring moves to accommodate it.

5) the way we play, once a piece has become active that piece MUST end in the wheel and in a valid place. you must continue to retrieve and place it until it is valid, even if other pieces have fallen out and your turn has not ended until it is in. if required you are allowed to force other bits out of position (and they may land in illegal placement) although it is likely they will fall out and you will have to take them. you may need to do this if you activate a bit that there is no chance of you getting in otherwise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.