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Subject: Obama 2012 rss

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MGK
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chaendlmaier wrote:
Can anybody imagine a reasonable scenario under which Romney could be elected president?


The Eurozone collapses and the economy tanks.
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chaendlmaier wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
The Eurozone collapses

But that would be good for the USA.


Unlikely. Who buys all the consumer goods US companies sell (that are made in China)? With no market, our own economy collapses.

Economic collapse causes the population to blame the current leader, regardless of whether they had any impact or not, and replace him.
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Rich Charters
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It's pretty clear to me that Romney is the right man for the job. Obama has had his 4 years. He gave it his best shot, and didn't get the results that he was elected to get. Let's give Obama a realistic grade for his 1st 4 years: C? C-?

Time to give Mitt a try. Mitt's entire experience shows a pattern of exceeding expectations. Based on past life experience for both men, Mitt has the advantage hands down. If we, the people, opt for another 4 years of Obama rather than Romney it will be a sad day for the US.

Some say that Romney is 'out of touch' with the common man. There may be some truth to that, but no more so than for George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

Let's elect Mitt in November!


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richcharters wrote:
Some say that Romney is 'out of touch' with the common man. There may be some truth to that, but no more so than for George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.


I read some funny stuff on BGG. This was the best one today. Thanks Rich.

I don't have a dog in this race, two sides of the same coind as far as I am concerned... but I am pretty certain Obama will win here. What will be interesting will be 2016 with no incumbent in the race. SuperPACs will be life support for 3-4 candidates from both the RNC and DNC. Should be a real circus! That is, if we still have elections come that time.

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That may depend on how effective the current Republican anti-voting-rights measures are in reducing voting by poor people and minorities. The electoral vote count may be close enough that voter suppression in a key battleground state may swing the election.

But Romney's in a tight spot: after playing "more extremist than thou" with the crazy right-wing candidates for months, he now has to convince moderates that he was just kidding about most of that stuff. He has a chance of pulling it off, though, based on his record as Massachusetts governor.
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richcharters wrote:
Let's elect Mitt in November!


I doubt I'll even be voting in November. But if I do, I can say unequivocally that I won't be voting for Mitt. In fact, I don't know of anyone in my demographic who will.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
Is Obama gaining more votes than he had in 2008 or is he losing votes?


Number of votes is immaterial. It's states. I think he's going to lose some states due to apathy among the younger voters.

But largely, it's Obama's race to lose at this point. Romney will pick an ultra right krazy khristian k for his running mate but he'll never be able to motivate the far right enough to get the volume of votes needed in the right places.

Frankly, I'm moderately pleased with Obama's work. My largest complaint is with the further infringement of personal freedoms that is the continued fallout of the misguided and mislabeled "Patriot Act".

I think stimulus has worked, as well as it can -- especially here in Indiana. If anything, more is needed. But as many people pointed out in 2008, National stimulus packages are a 2 way deal. The Gov't keeps the businesses afloat through a financial crisis but once the economy starts to boom again, the companies need to pay it back. We just need to look at the Japanese Recession of the 90s to see what needs to happen and not happen.
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Morgan Dontanville
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Well, coming in third on Dancing with the Stars and guesting on Jersey Shore should really help Mitten's campaign.
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chaendlmaier wrote:


Can anybody imagine a reasonable scenario under which Romney could be elected president?



I think Romney has a good chance of winning. This election is not a lock for anybody.

I think the extremist "apathy" will effect both sides. The radical left are unhappy with Obama. Romney doesn't excite the radical right.

Plus the "historical" pull of helping to vote in the first ever "Black" President won't be there this time. Nor will the "We hate Bush so there must be a change" influence be in effect.

So I suspect overall voter turnout on all sides will be lower this election cycle than the last election cycle.

This makes the "middle ground" much more important. And when it comes to middle ground Romney has an edge. However Obama has shown he really is much more moderate than he campaigned to be as a leader. Which means while the "left" is upset with his performance, many genuine moderates, like myself, are much happier with Obama than we expected to be.

So I think it could go either way at this point.
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Drew1365 wrote:
[q="chaendlmaier"](To DW, BJ and Drew: Before you derail another thread with Obama hate-speech, . . .

Obama "hate-speech"? Is that how this is going to work? Will Obama's secret police be knocking on my door soon?


Drew Drew... wake up Drew its time to go to school... you were having a bad dream.

Quote:

Obamafans, get over yourselves. You were the same people who elevated hating George Bush to an artform. A little late to be whining about such things now.


And the Obama haters took that ball and showed us how its done!!!!!

Its engrained in our politics now..... I doubt anyone could find someone who wasn't hated by one side or the other!!!
 
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Meerkat wrote:
The radical left are unhappy with Obama.


...and Orthodox Christians don't believe in Santa Claus.

The left would never vote for Obama, then or now. Not sure why what you say would have any relevance as it is a foregone conclusion... the DNC is very much right of center.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Obamafans, get over yourselves. You were the same people who elevated hating George Bush to an artform. A little late to be whining about such things now.

Rinse and repeat: Bush did it too.

I thought you didn't like it when people did that?
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richcharters wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that Romney is the right man for the job. Obama has had his 4 years. He gave it his best shot, and didn't get the results that he was elected to get. Let's give Obama a realistic grade for his 1st 4 years: C? C-?


Funny. I'd give Obama about the same grade. But that doesn't make me want to vote for Romney.
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mdp4828 wrote:
richcharters wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that Romney is the right man for the job. Obama has had his 4 years. He gave it his best shot, and didn't get the results that he was elected to get. Let's give Obama a realistic grade for his 1st 4 years: C? C-?


Funny. I'd give Obama about the same grade. But that doesn't make me want to vote for Romney.


I give him a B-. If he'd closed Gitmo and took an anti-torture stance I'd be more forgiving his trying to "cross the aisle" all the time.
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sisteray wrote:
mdp4828 wrote:
richcharters wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that Romney is the right man for the job. Obama has had his 4 years. He gave it his best shot, and didn't get the results that he was elected to get. Let's give Obama a realistic grade for his 1st 4 years: C? C-?


Funny. I'd give Obama about the same grade. But that doesn't make me want to vote for Romney.


I give him a B-. If he'd closed Gitmo and took an anti-torture stance I'd be more forgiving his trying to "cross the aisle" all the time.


I'd give him a solid C+ on policy, and a D- on politics. If he loses the election, it's going to be about the second part. He's let the narrative be completely controlled by the opposition party in an effort to let them fall on their own sword, but I think he dangerously overestimates his appeal to moderates after letting the right paint him as a radical leftist for four years. To campaign to the middle he's going to have to start combating that perception all at once, guns blazing, and it's going to be harder than he thinks.
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chaendlmaier wrote:

Can anybody imagine a reasonable scenario under which Romney could be elected president?


Obama is killed in a pistol duel with Steve Doocy about whether or not he copied a speech he gave a year ago. In a close race, Romney comes in second to the cooling corpse.

The case goes to the USSC and they rule that a dead body can in fact become president if its IQ still registers higher than any single previous president's. In the aftermath, W's legacy is cemented.

In a suprise turn of events, the corpse selects Romney as its vice president "in an effort to heal the nation through compromise".

Unfortunately, before long Michelle accidentally leaves the corpse out overnight, Bo gets peckish, and boom: 45th president Mitt Romney.
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chaendlmaier wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
The Eurozone collapses

But that would be good for the USA.


Uh, no it wouldn't. It would have a horrible ripple effect through the world economy.
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chaendlmaier wrote:
OK, so does anyone think Romney really has a chance of beating Obama?

Clearly, Willard Mitt Romney and his cast of Republican millionaire and billionaire contributors who comprise his donors and super pacs are under the distinct impression that the 2012 Presidential election can be bought off for the right price -- and they seem all too willing to try to pay it.


chaendlmaier wrote:
Romney already is unpopular amongst Women, Afro-Americans, Evangelical Christians and Republicans.

Correction: Romney is fair to middling popular among Establishment Republicans.


chaendlmaier wrote:
You US-Americans should save yourself a billion dollars and just call Obama in for a second term. Or at least avoid the hassle of holding an election and let the people who provide the billion decide who is going to be the head of state for the next couple of years. This worked very well for Greece and Italy.

The end result of allowing millionaires and billionaires to buy the election is what we call Fascism. Are you in favor of the USA becoming a plutocracy of robber barons?


chaendlmaier wrote:
Can anybody imagine a reasonable scenario under which Romney could be elected president?

Reasonable, no. Cynical, yes.

And you've already read about and/or seen part of it in the way that Romney & his super-pac contributors have already spent some $85,000,000.00 thus far in advertising, the overwhelming greater majority of it in attack ads.

 
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Meerkat wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:


Can anybody imagine a reasonable scenario under which Romney could be elected president?



I think Romney has a good chance of winning. This election is not a lock for anybody.

...

So I think it could go either way at this point.


I don't see NC, IN or OH going Democrat again. FL may swing the Republicans' way, too. It also wouldn't shock me if commentators overestimated the impact of demographic changes in northern Virginia, and the backlash hits hard - it's a state that's shown signs of significant buyer's remorse since 2008.

That's assuming fewer of the gaffes Mitt has shown so far. Romney is on a bit of a knife edge. The swing states he needs most are not particularly geared toward Northeastern patricians, and he's polling poorly amongst women. Seems to me if he doesn't manage to (a) just keep his mouth shut on issues like contraception and women in the workplace, and (b) convince voters he's not an entitled corporate raider, you're right, depressed turnout could really hurt him.
 
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
He's let the narrative be completely controlled by the opposition party in an effort to let them fall on their own sword, but I think he dangerously overestimates his appeal to moderates after letting the right paint him as a radical leftist for four years. To campaign to the middle he's going to have to start combating that perception all at once, guns blazing, and it's going to be harder than he thinks.


Yes. I like and approve of most of Obama's stated policies, but I think he's failed to make his case very effectively. He's also continued the power creep that began under GWB. It's an infelicitous combination.

In a way, I think if he had done a very small number of things differently - publicly refusing to assassinate Americans abroad, dismantling Guantanamo, cutting down on drone attacks, distancing himself from the PATRIOT act (now often criticized on the right), and opening the books on some of the excesses of the post-9/11 intelligence community - even though those policies are associated with the Republicans, the public would have interpreted his actions as dialing back on executive power - something that I think many if not most American moderates approve of.

Instead, he swallowed a bottle of poison pills to look strong on national security, precisely when killing OBL was in the cards anyway, and when national security was less of a threat to his politics than domestic issues.

I think that was a serious tactical mistake, and in combination with his perceived overreach in domestic affairs, it's allowed Republicans to successfully paint him as some kind of authoritarian antichrist.
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[q="chaendlmaier"]OK, so does anyone think Romney really has a chance of beating Obama?

Depends on how much money he can spend. as others have said there is a bit of apathy for voters how elected him in 08 based on his performance to this point, the fact that he is no longer a historical candidate. disappointment of many younger voters who expected him to solve all the U.S.'s problems with a wink and a kiss.

You US-Americans should save yourself a billion dollar and just call Obama in for a second term. Or at least avoid the hassle of holding an election and let the people who provide the billion decide who is going to be the head of state for the next couple of years. This worked very well for Greece and Italy.
/q]

as for skipping the election major constitutional issue thatwould piss many on both sides of the political aisle off in that it is required no matter how assured a victory may be by a candidate. FDR served far longer than was probably health for him but he still kept running and winning. this is a democracy and the consitution demands the election be heald even if it may be a waste of money in the opinion of people in or out of the U.S.

and as for Greece I don't think things are working as well there as you are thinking they are. There is a lot of room for Greece to fail and it seems that everything they are doing in Greece is patching a damn with sand to buy time for someone else to fix the damn before it fails and well sand has a bad habit of being carried away by the water. If Greece's economy tanks it stands a very good chance of brining Europe down with it and Italy will probably be the next European nation to start crumbling economically. Italy I think is in a bit better situation as theit Primeminister realized before he stepped down that the shit was hitting the fan and implemented measures and took the heat for a lot of things that I suspect will bring Italy around if given some time.
 
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There's plenty of time between now and the election - plenty of time for both candidates to make their case, or to make catastrophic errors which can hand the election to the other guy. For Romney, things will depend upon how successful he is in uniting the Republicans against Obama. A lot of Republicans are lukewarm on Mitt, but none of them want another four years of Obama, so Romney should be able to muster that vote. With Obama's less than stellar performance in turning around the US from the Bush years (not all his fault, but that's a discussion for another time), I suspect that young independent voters are less likely to come out in droves for Obama than they did in 2008. Frankly, with this much time between now and the election, I see this race as a coin-toss, and I think anyone who says differently must have access to one hell of a crystal ball!
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The way I see it - primaries really hurt Romney.
Election will go (as they often do) to whomever can get at least decent showing from their base while not alienating the middle.
Obama has the advantage in that primaries forced Romney into the situation where it is hard to hold onto both.

I for example would vote for him (were I an American) for *exact* same reason Drew would not - i.e. I do not believe that he means the conservative crap he says (while I do believe that he is a competent manager which is really the *only* thing I want from my politicians).

Obama the President has proven way less scary then Obama the Candidate and that can get some of the middle to the Dems which may compensate for the inevitable attrition of the base - unless of course he screws up by going all hard-left (by USA standards) in the campaign.
In the 2008 election I would have voted against Obama because he scared me vaguely - now I would simply vote against him solely because he is incompetent (which is a way less strong impression and more easily changed during the campaign).

If I was asked to bet I would say Obama will win but Republicans will keep the congress (which is kind of exactly opposite of what I would like to see - democrats in the congress are rather vile bunch, but the republicans there are, with a few noble exceptions, utterly despicable).


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richcharters wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that Romney is the right man for the job. Obama has had his 4 years. He gave it his best shot, and didn't get the results that he was elected to get. Let's give Obama a realistic grade for his 1st 4 years: C? C-?

Time to give Mitt a try. Mitt's entire experience shows a pattern of exceeding expectations. Based on past life experience for both men, Mitt has the advantage hands down. If we, the people, opt for another 4 years of Obama rather than Romney it will be a sad day for the US.

Some say that Romney is 'out of touch' with the common man. There may be some truth to that, but no more so than for George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

Let's elect Mitt in November!




Obama gets a C? For what? For failing to end the unnecessary war in Iraq sooner? For failing to find a revenue source to pay for said way and, oh by the way another war that W. kept out of the normal budget process? For not magically restoring housing value after the bubble burst from the malfeasant actions of banks and investment houses? For actually ending Bin Laden? For having no successful foreign terrorist attacks? For actually trying to solve health care rather than shrugging? For enduring record filibusters by a minority power senate whose stated priority was limiting Obama to one term? For not taking a pledge about taxes over serving the constitution?

Forget Obama. How would Romney distinguish himself from George W. Bush, the chief architect of most of the current state of affairs?

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Quote:


Forget Obama. How would Romney distinguish himself from George W. Bush, the chief architect of most of the current state of affairs?



Ancient history for $200 Alex.

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