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Subject: How does Ogre play? Newbie Alert!!! rss

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George Acin
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Never heard of Ogre until last year when SJG reported they were working on a new version of it. I am however, very much intrigued by the game given the outstanding support it's received over at Kickstarter despite it's price. Consider that the number of people supporting Ogre has surpassed those supporting Zpoalypse, but it's still half of those who supported D-Day Dice.

Is there a way for me to read the rules or at least look at a video or read about how it plays? Need to make a decision on whether to get it or not. I usually make my mind up once I've read the rules (Agricola, Dominion, Puerto Rico, Eclipse, Letters from Whitechapel and other games I've purchased have been after just reading the rules).

Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.
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Charles Hildebrandt
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You can download a copy of the ultra-light Ogre miniatures rules for free:

http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products/miniatureslite/

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Bwian, just
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There's a free version of the miniatures rules, at http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-5001 . That won't cover everything, and movement is a little different, but might be some good reading material.

Edit: must type faster!
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Talorien
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The 'movement' and 'range' values given in inches in the Ogre Minis Lite rules are halved when using a hex map.

E.g. A Heavy Tank moves 3 hexes and has a range of 2.
 
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Malechi
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How does OGRE play?

Skeet shooting, of course. It tosses tanks into the air and shoots them down with a ballistic missile.
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Andrew Walters
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To anyone curious about Ogre the standard advice should be: ask around your game store, game club, or local convention. Someone you know has a copy, you can learn and play in an hour. If you're the type who's still curious after reading about it, you'll probably have a blast, and you'll be on your way to deciding on your kickstarter pledge amount.
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Jake Rose
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andreww wrote:

To anyone curious about Ogre the standard advice should be: ask around your game store, game club, or local convention. Someone you know has a copy, you can learn and play in an hour. If you're the type who's still curious after reading about it, you'll probably have a blast, and you'll be on your way to deciding on your kickstarter pledge amount.


Or hunting on Ebay for a copy that will run you less than 20 bucks...
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Andrew Walters
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With just a little patience eBay, BGG, and game flea markets will always get you a copy for $10. There are a *lot* of copies out there. A lot. A whole lot.

In my mind that's one reason a modestly produced $25 version of Ogre doesn't make much sense. It would only be a little better than the $15 flea market copies, and the market is not that big. Lots of people buying the KS version already have a regular copy.

Another idea: the rules are online and there is a VASSAL module, play a game with someone online before May 11!
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andreww wrote:
With just a little patience eBay, BGG, and game flea markets will always get you a copy for $10. There are a *lot* of copies out there. A lot. A whole lot.


By my estimate, about 130,000 copies of OGRE were produced in all versions.

Of course, many of them may be lost/destroyed/buried in boxes in attics.

Let's say only 1 in 10 copies is still in circulation.

That'd still be 13,000 copies floating around...
 
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Andrew Walters
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I'd sure love to know that number. I bet 130k is low, and a lot more than 1 in 10 are still around. On the other hand, several are in my garage so a fewer people have them than the numbers would suggest.

I wonder if SJ Games can publish the "Copies Sold!" number. It should include the Ogre Miniatures book in the print and PDF formats...
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Jeremy Fridy
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Ogre was produced for over almost 20 years in several forms. It's beauty for me was that it was dirt cheap (in the 80s, it was under 10 bucks for the main games, and 3 bucks for each expansion,) easy to learn, and short enough to play multiple games in an evening. With GEV as well you had the kit to play lots of scenarios and design your own missions.
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Gerald Rüscher
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jcikal wrote:
I am however, very much intrigued by the game given the outstanding support it's received over at Kickstarter despite it's price.

Frankly, I don't understand the hype.

I have an original Ogre box somewhere in the attic and during the last tweo decades I never considered bringing it back into my main gaming shelves in the living room. Ogre was a decent game when I bought it some time in the 80ies but with all due respect and good memories it is pretty lame considering modern standards. I *can* understand that some geeks might consider this game their first true gaming love but why on earth would someone pay 100 bucks for a game which is mediocre at best?

Probably Matt & Igor can explain this:


My advice: don't buy it. It's not worth the money (unless the rules are substantially and fundamentally updated)
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Brian Rayburn
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It most certainly is worth it. Every penny. This is SJ's 'baby', the game that got him started in the industry, and launched thousands of us into the gaming hobby. Could a new version be made that costs $30? Sure. But that's not what SJ wants. He wants a monstrous juggernaut of a game. Seems fitting, no? We the fans are right there with him. Will I pay $100 for 14 pounds of boardgame? Damn right I will. But then again, I'm a fan. I have loved this game ever since I first played it. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I doubt it. Very few games can keep people playing over and over again for 35 years with pretty much NO rules updates/changes/tweaks. That says something about the fundamental game design. I respect your opinion, but I certainly don't agree with it. OGRE 6E is what SJ wants, and the fans have overwhelmingly spoken that they want it too. And that I can't argue with.

-Brian
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Todd Pytel
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Just to make sure I wasn't succumbing to nostalgia, I pulled out my Deluxe Ogre (the cardboard standup one) an hour ago and played a quick round - my 4 year old twins assisted with die rolling and sound effects. It's still a great game. But its greatness lies mostly in plain old solid design - I don't think you'd see anything worth noting in a video. You move some guys, shoot some guns, calculate some combat odds, and roll some dice. Stuff blows up. Rinse. Repeat. The original Ogre scenario is about as old-school a wargame as it gets. There's nothing I could point to in the rules as clever. But it's tight and balanced and poses interesting choices in a fast-playing package. A lot of much flashier wargames can't say that. GEV takes it up a notch with some more units and some basic terrain effects, but again there's nothing there mechanically that stands out these days. But a fun game is a fun game, and drowning it in the hip BGG mechanic du jour tends only to make for a game that ends up living on the shelf after a few plays.

Simple? Yes. Fun? Definitely. Worth it? For my money, absolutely.
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Daniel Schulz
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It's a good, simple wargame with asymmetric play, lots of chrome, tactical play, good balance and a scifi theme. It's not nostalgia that's driving the interest.
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gruescher wrote:
My advice: don't buy it. It's not worth the money (unless the rules are substantially and fundamentally updated)


If you dislike playing with a CRT and moving all your units at once, you could play with these variant rules:

OGRE: Tal's No CRT Variant
 
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Jim Stoker
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When I heard about the reprint I played a few games with a friend who had gotten an old copy, here is my review: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/547204/ogre-ogre-ooooggg... In a nutshell, I still love Ogre. It captures 90% of the fun of a tactical wargame with 10% of the rules. Beginners can play it, have fun, and occasionally win. There is enough there to think about if you want to. It doesn't take 1000 hours to learn the rules (closer to 1000 seconds). It is fun, which isn't something even good wargames can always claim. The $100 box is admittedly weird for such a straightforward game, but I will buy it will complete confidence that I will get $100+++ of pleasure out of it.

It is fun!
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Daniel Drickman
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This isn't necessarily the type of game I would normally be interested in as I am not a wargamer at all, but man seeing that image of Steve Jackson holding up the box made me want this.

About how many different scenarios are available?

Looking at my collection, do you guys think this might be something I would enjoy despite not being a big wargamer?

All help is appreciated.
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Daniel Drickman
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Just for further clarification. I have played and enjoyed Battlelore, Commands & Colors and Memoir. I ended up trading all these games away, my issue with these is primarily

1 setup and take down time.
2. I much prefer fantasy / sci-fi settings to actual history.
3. The Expansion nature of the games.
4. The L/C/R system. It seemed all too often I couldn't move the units I wanted to.

Does Ogre improve on these factors? I dont think I will ever be a heavy wargamer, but I enjoy a diverse collection, so having a lighter, fun wargame might be a nice addition to my collection.
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Malechi
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DanKD wrote:
This isn't necessarily the type of game I would normally be interested in as I am not a wargamer at all ...


I too am not a wargamer - at all. However, OGRE has always been in my top ten games, since forever (well, at least the late 70's), due to its ease to learn, play and have fun with gamers and non-gamers alike.
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DanKD wrote:
About how many different scenarios are available?


By my estimate, at least 12 scenarios.

Many of those have A, B and C versions, so depending on how you count it, it could be as many as 25+ scenarios.

There is also a point buy system, so in theory you can buy your own forces for most of those scenarios.

See this thread:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/790605/what-comes-in-ogre-de...



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DanKD wrote:
Just for further clarification. I have played and enjoyed Battlelore, Commands & Colors and Memoir. I ended up trading all these games away, my issue with these is primarily

1 setup and take down time.
2. I much prefer fantasy / sci-fi settings to actual history.
3. The Expansion nature of the games.
4. The L/C/R system. It seemed all too often I couldn't move the units I wanted to.

Does Ogre improve on these factors? I dont think I will ever be a heavy wargamer, but I enjoy a diverse collection, so having a lighter, fun wargame might be a nice addition to my collection.


1. Setup:

I'd say setup for Ogre is about two to five times faster than C&C games (depending on you and your opponent)

What speeds up the process:

- You don't have to assemble units by finding four of each figure

- You don't have to match specific units to specific hexes

- Most terrain is preprinted on the board (i.e. you don't have to build the board except for maybe a few overlays)

What slows down the process:

- You still have to find the right units (helps if you've sorted them in your storage system)

- You choose where your forces set up (with certain restrictions like north of this line). However, this can be interpreted as the 'first move' of 'actually playing the game' rather than just setting up.

- In some scenarios you choose your force composition (again, this can be interpreted as part of playing the game)

- Depending on how you store the 3D Ogres and buildings (e.g. if you store them flat, unconstructed/semi-unconstructed) it may take time to ready those for play

Teardown:

This is as quick as your unit sorting system. The ideal would be to have a plano where sort units by throwing them into their compartment.

Again, partly disassembling Ogres/buildings seems to be the biggest factor here.
 
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DanKD wrote:
2. I much prefer fantasy / sci-fi settings to actual history.
3. The Expansion nature of the games.
4. The L/C/R system. It seemed all too often I couldn't move the units I wanted to.

Does Ogre improve on these factors? I dont think I will ever be a heavy wargamer, but I enjoy a diverse collection, so having a lighter, fun wargame might be a nice addition to my collection.


2. OGRE's definitely Scifi, though it's Scifi set in the future of our world. There is still America, the UK, China, Japan, etc.

North America + the UK are the Combine (one main faction) and Europe is the Paneuropean Federation (the other main faction).

3. Designer's Edition will be a complete game in itself (in fact, it contains 2.5 expansions in the box).

Fans are hoping for an expansion that will fill out the missing 0.5, but it won't be necessary.

4. You can always move and fire all your units on your turn in OGRE, except if they have been disabled (miss a turn) through combat.
 
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James Cameron
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andreww wrote:

I'd sure love to know that number. I bet 130k is low, and a lot more than 1 in 10 are still around.

There's an unpunched Ogre on ebay right now, current bid is around $100...

DanKD wrote:
I dont think I will ever be a heavy wargamer, but I enjoy a diverse collection, so having a lighter, fun wargame might be a nice addition to my collection.

For me, the appeal of Ogre rests on two factors (besides pure nostalgia):

1. The basic design: OGRE is as asymmetrical as a game gets -- a single super powerful unit vs. a bunch of puny much less powerful units.

2. The concept is pure sci-fi genius: a giant nuclear-powered nearly indestructible robot tank that can't be reasoned with, doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear, and absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead. If that idea gets your heart racing, the game is for you. If you could care less about giant robot tanks, maybe not so much.

 
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Talorien wrote:
DanKD wrote:
About how many different scenarios are available?


By my estimate, at least 12 scenarios.


Oh, forgot to mention there'll now be 8 more free scenarios online (unlocked through Kickstarter).
 
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