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Nuklear Winter '68» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question regarding Artillery attacks, both off board and SPA - ANSWERED! rss

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Ryan
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When resolving an artillery attack versus stacked enemy units, does the attacker:
d10-1 roll 2D6 separately for each enemy unit, or
d10-2 roll 2D6 once and apply the result to both units?

This has some importance as rolling for each unit gives the 2nd defending unit an opportunity to avoid a severe attack, or conversely gives the attacker a chance to inflict damage to the 2nd unit if the first attack was not a hit.

I am assuming the correct answer is d10-2. It seems that artillery would be targeting the entire hex. Plus, it's a good way to minimize dice rolling. The rules seem slightly ambiguous here, so I wanted to clarify.

Thanks in advance!
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Petre Tutunea
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Re: Question regarding Artillery attacks, both off board and SPA
Ryanmobile wrote:
When resolving an artillery attack versus stacked enemy units, does the attacker:
:d10-1: roll 2D6 separately for each enemy unit, or
:d10-2: roll 2D6 once and apply the result to both units?


During artillery strikes the attacker has to roll separately for each enemy unit in the target hex(es). While heavier on the dice rolling overall, I believe it adds to the 'realism' of the game, not to mention the enjoyment of the dice rolling enthusiasts :)

You're right, the wording is ambiguous in this instance and I've added this item on my to-fix list.
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Ryan
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Re: Question regarding Artillery attacks, both off board and SPA
Thanks for the clarification, Petre. I started out thinking d10-1, then I talked myself into d10-2. I'll go back to d10-1 now.

I kept going back and forth in my mind on what was a more "realistic" model: artillery falling evenly across the entire hex, or artillery hitting areas of the hex at a different intensity.

Additionally, and just to clarify since we're on the subject, is there only one "accuracy check" per hex targeted by artillery, even with 2 units stacked in the target hex?
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Petre Tutunea
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Re: Question regarding Artillery attacks, both off board and SPA
Ryanmobile wrote:
Additionally, and just to clarify since we're on the subject, is there only one "accuracy check" per hex targeted by artillery, even with 2 units stacked in the target hex?


Yes, only one accuracy check has to be made per hex during artillery strikes, regardless of the number of enemy units in there.
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Mark Walker
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Re: Question regarding Artillery attacks, both off board and SPA
Petre's artillery rules are so good they make me jealous that I didn't design them. In fact, I've since employed them as SSRs in a couple of World at War scenarios. Artillery should be DEVASTATING. I think this fact is often glossed over in tactical games.
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Alessio Lerro
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I agree, excellent artillery system.
This thread helped me a lot because I was applying the same dice roll to all the units.
Thanks!
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Mark Walker
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alzazello wrote:
I agree, excellent artillery system.
This thread helped me a lot because I was applying the same dice roll to all the units.
Thanks!

Petre's great at answering rules questions.
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Mark Holt Walker wrote:
Petre's artillery rules are so good they make me jealous that I didn't design them. In fact, I've since employed them as SSRs in a couple of World at War scenarios. Artillery should be DEVASTATING. I think this fact is often glossed over in tactical games.


Would you say that the NW68 artillery effect on tanks is realistic (even given this alternate reality setting)? The artillery AV for both off and on board is as effective as the highest direct fire AP factors. A lot of simulations reflect a much lower capability, even restricting effects by artillery to "morale only" type results verses AFV's.
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Question: suppose a 3 hex off-board type barrage attack is laid out so that it falls adjacent to a friendly unit (protective defensive fire). All three hexes under attack fail the accuracy check!!! The opposing player, laughing all the way, relocates each barrage attack into the friendly units hex. Is it intended that all three barrages roll seperately against each unit in the new target hex? That such a unit in the hex is attacked three times?

If this is the case it raises the question as to wether 3 hex off-board barrage attacks cannot be concentrated into one hex by the firing player in the first place. I'm sure this isn't the case but ...
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Petre Tutunea
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mark heywood wrote:
Question: suppose a 3 hex off-board type barrage attack is laid out so that it falls adjacent to a friendly unit (protective defensive fire). All three hexes under attack fail the accuracy check!!! The opposing player, laughing all the way, relocates each barrage attack into the friendly units hex. Is it intended that all three barrages roll seperately against each unit in the new target hex? That such a unit in the hex is attacked three times?

If this is the case it raises the question as to wether 3 hex off-board barrage attacks cannot be concentrated into one hex by the firing player in the first place. I'm sure this isn't the case but ...


Very interesting question, to which I'll start by pointing out the many real-life events in which troops were accidentally shelled or bombed by friendly artillery and CAS planes because they were too close to the enemy. Such are the risks of close support actions and game's artillery rules do try to take them into account.

Back to your question, the intended way to resolve OBA strikes, as illustrated on page 14, is to have the initial target hex (i.e. the one with the explosion mark) chosen and rolled for accuracy. Following that, target hexes 2 and 3 must be chosen by the active player, one at a time, out of the six adjacent ones.

What this translates to is that there have to be 3 different, yet grouped target hexes, and that through careful choosing of the last two hexes you can avoid harming your own troops even if the salvos miss.
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Prompt as ever Petre, thankyou. But your answer after some of the discussion here surprised me a little. So if not inconvenient another question or two, just to stamp it out firm.

After you roll to determine the accuracy of the initial target hex, then if inaccurate the opposing player shifts said target hex to anyone adjacent hex. Whether a drift occurs or not, you then indicate any adjacent fired on hexes. Do you then roll for accuracy for these following fired on hexes?

If you only roll for the initial targeted hex, it may be a good idea to tweek the 2.4.1 Off-Board Artillery ruling, second paragraph, if you get a chance. In bold the rule describes making an accuracy roll for each targeted hex. Then in the barrage paragraph it talks of the strike affecting every unit in each targeted hex.

To tell the truth, I have only been rolling accuracy for the one initial hex, and not for the others. No drift has occured yet either with on or off-board artillery. But due to some of the discussion here, I have made a mental flip. Still hope the reasonings are of benefit. Played through Scenario 3 yesterday (solo). A very tight finish and lots of fun.
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Petre Tutunea
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mark heywood wrote:
After you roll to determine the accuracy of the initial target hex, then if inaccurate the opposing player shifts said target hex to anyone adjacent hex. Whether a drift occurs or not, you then indicate any adjacent fired on hexes. Do you then roll for accuracy for these following fired on hexes?

To tell the truth, I have only been rolling accuracy for the one initial hex, and not for the others.


Mark, you played correctly in only rolling accuracy for the initial target hex. That was the way I intended it to be played although I realize now that roll for every targeted hex would rather suggest each of the strike's hexes rather than each strike's initially targeted hex.

Added to the to-fix list.
 
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Thanks again Petre.
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Mark Walker
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I think artillery is much more effective than tactical games portray. Once read an article in Armor magazine that said much the same thing.
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Any details from this article Mark.
 
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Christian Sperling
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I have an interesting article about this topic.
It's called:

If you want, you can download it here (PDF file,4 pages).
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Thanks for that Christian. Will give this a read.
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Gave that a read. The effects of non-catastrophic damage by the 'dumb' artillery rounds isn't surprising, but the frequency inferred is more so. Certainly lends support to NW 68's lethality vis a vis tanks.

It also answers too some of the 1980's future history fiction I've read in the past ... a Zaloga portrayal of an M1 platoon virtually unaffected by 122mm 2S1 HE fire and criticism of the Soviets meagre fire program as an example. Perhaps all were operating under the same Western view of artillery ineffectiveness?
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Mark Walker
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Quote:
Certainly lends support to NW 68's lethality vis a vis tanks.


I read the same article and also have several friends who were in Desert Storm. Arty can TEAR UP armor.I also show that in http://www.locknloadgame.com/Section_Cat_Content_Detail.asp?...White Star Rising.
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