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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: touch of genius - sabotage rss

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george mackenzie
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someone used this action card, and then someone sabotaged after touch of genuis was used, (they chose flank speed). does this mean the player copying flank speed still has to spend 3 inluence or is this cancelled?

cheers
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Scott Lewis
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bbw222 wrote:
someone used this action card, and then someone sabotaged after touch of genuis was used, (they chose flank speed). does this mean the player copying flank speed still has to spend 3 inluence or is this cancelled?

cheers

The card is canceled, including all effects. This means that you do not have to spend the 3 influence.
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george mackenzie
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i read from one of ur previous posts, that you have to spend 3 influence, annouce which card u want to copy, and then have a chance to sabotage?
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Scott Lewis
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bbw222 wrote:
i read from one of ur previous posts, that you have to spend 3 influence, annouce which card u want to copy, and then have a chance to sabotage?

I may have, I'm not sure; I may have just been referring to the fact that the person who is Sabotaging doesn't have to play the Sabotage card until all choices on the card are made. But if the card is canceled, all effects caused by the card are canceled and reverted, so the influence would not be spent.

It's the same as if you play a card that says to play it "as an action". If it's canceled, the action didn't happen, and you must do something else.

(Note that this is different than something like Flank Speed; if you activate a system and then play Flank Speed, and Flank Speed is canceled with Sabotage, the system DOES remain activated, as the system activation was not part of the effects of the card; it was merely the external trigger).
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george mackenzie
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It's the same as if you play a card that says to play it "as an action". If it's canceled, the action didn't happen, and you must do something else.

are u saying if u play sabotage on an AC that says "play as an action" then u get another turn?
i thought sabotage just stopped the effects working, but still made them use up an action.
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Martin DeOlden
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bbw222 wrote:
It's the same as if you play a card that says to play it "as an action". If it's canceled, the action didn't happen, and you must do something else.

are u saying if u play sabotage on an AC that says "play as an action" then u get another turn?
i thought sabotage just stopped the effects working, but still made them use up an action.


They never did an action if it was sabotaged and therefor must do something else. The player does not lose an action as it never happened.

From the official FAQ 2.4 page 2

Q: Is an Action Card that has been sabotaged considered
played?
A: No. For example, a “play as an action” Action Card that is
sabotaged does not use up its owner’s action.
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Scott Lewis
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bbw222 wrote:
It's the same as if you play a card that says to play it "as an action". If it's canceled, the action didn't happen, and you must do something else.

are u saying if u play sabotage on an AC that says "play as an action" then u get another turn?
i thought sabotage just stopped the effects working, but still made them use up an action.

Yep, thats what I'm saying... sort of As tawnos points out via the FAQ, a Sabotaged card is treated as if it were never played.

In the case of "play as an action", its not so much you are getting another turn, but rather that the first turn you wanted to do was voided, and so you are instead having to do something else for that turn.
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Brian Petersen
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Do rolls on the card count as the choices for Sabotage? As an example, Player A plays Target Their Flagship to fire A's DN at B's Carrier. The choices on the card are made, but the card hasn't been resolved yet.

Does player B Sabotage before or after the roll? If Player A misses, Player B is advantaged by not Sabotaging.
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Adam Wehn
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TomBoombs wrote:
Do rolls on the card count as the choices for Sabotage? As an example, Player A plays Target Their Flagship to fire A's DN at B's Carrier. The choices on the card are made, but the card hasn't been resolved yet.

Does player B Sabotage before or after the roll? If Player A misses, Player B is advantaged by not Sabotaging.


Action cards activate in initiative order. As far as playing them I think you have to play Sabotage immediately after another card is played. Thus you can't wait to see what the result is.
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Scott Lewis
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PracticalImperialist wrote:
TomBoombs wrote:
Do rolls on the card count as the choices for Sabotage? As an example, Player A plays Target Their Flagship to fire A's DN at B's Carrier. The choices on the card are made, but the card hasn't been resolved yet.

Does player B Sabotage before or after the roll? If Player A misses, Player B is advantaged by not Sabotaging.


Action cards activate in initiative order. As far as playing them I think you have to play Sabotage immediately after another card is played. Thus you can't wait to see what the result is.

Correct. You can wait until they have made any CHOICES that need to be made, but die rolls are choices, they are part of the resolution of the card.

So you can sabotage it after they announce what they are doing with the card, but you can't wait to see what they roll; you must Sabotage before any effects are resolved.
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