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Subject: Subspace Navigation Overpowered? rss

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Jason
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I recently played a few games, and the Subspace Navigation card seemed overly powerful, so I am trying to make sure i properly understand the way the card is intended to work.

I took moving between any two locations, as the ship can move to any space on the map? Is this the case? This seems overly powerful, especially if in the hands to the Imperium since they have the "better" ships.

If i am not understanding this, can someone please explain how the card is intended to work? Thanks!
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David Bohnenberger
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Not between any two locations, but any two that do not contain enemy ships or control markers. But still, it is probably the most powerful card in the deck.

However, it is my recent experience with SB that sometimes rules that seem to be clearly written aren't. Hopefully someone "official" will chime in here.
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Jason
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Dweeb wrote:
Not between any two locations, but any two that do not contain enemy ships or control markers. But still, it is probably the most powerful card in the deck.

However, it is my recent experience with SB that sometimes rules that seem to be clearly written aren't. Hopefully someone "official" will chime in here.


How did you determine it could not move on a location with an enemy or control marker? I did not see anything that mentioned this...
 
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Alan Emrich
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Right, you have to jump where the other person ISN'T. Here's the card text:

Once per turn, during your Action Phase, you may pay one additional (+1) Logistics Point to move any one of your ships between any* two locations. Afterward, you may pay LPs in the usual manner to move it from that location, if allowed.

*Exception: This special move’s destination location cannot be an opponent’s Safe Refuge space (7.3.1).

So, prima face, that's an awesome card. BUT...

1. You can only use it ONCE per turn. That means ONE ship, not a fleet.

2. AND it costs an extra LP to do this. You cite the Imperium advantage because of their stronger ships, that is offset by their lower LPs. When the game matures and most of the fighting is in the center of the board, spending 2 to Jump a Destroyer is a pretty hefty amount of that turn's LPs

3. The Alliance should be able, with their larger fleet and bigger gas tank, to swat ONE Imperium ship. If it jumped behind Alliance lines, it should be "surroundable" an thus unable to flee from combat.

When your opponent has this card, keep your head and wits about you. Plan on losing 1 planet on the last turn of the game, but make up for it by making your opponent PAY for jumping ships around willy-nilly the rest of the game.

Alan Emrich
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Jason
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Alan Emrich wrote:

Right, you have to jump where the other person ISN'T. Here's the card text:

Once per turn, during your Action Phase, you may pay one additional (+1) Logistics Point to move any one of your ships between any* two locations. Afterward, you may pay LPs in the usual manner to move it from that location, if allowed.

*Exception: This special move’s destination location cannot be an opponent’s Safe Refuge space (7.3.1).

So, prima face, that's an awesome card. BUT...

1. You can only use it ONCE per turn. That means ONE ship, not a fleet.

2. AND it costs an extra LP to do this. You cite the Imperium advantage because of their stronger ships, that is offset by their lower LPs. When the game matures and most of the fighting is in the center of the board, spending 2 to Jump a Destroyer is a pretty hefty amount of that turn's LPs

3. The Alliance should be able, with their larger fleet and bigger gas tank, to swat ONE Imperium ship. If it jumped behind Alliance lines, it should be "surroundable" an thus unable to flee from combat.

When your opponent has this card, keep your head and wits about you. Plan on losing 1 planet on the last turn of the game, but make up for it by making your opponent PAY for jumping ships around willy-nilly the rest of the game.

Alan Emrich


Ok, this makes sense. Just the fact that the player has to jump to a location where the other player isn't makes the card much less powerful (even though I am still trying to figure out exactly what in the rules prevents this). Too me, the way the card is stating what it does, the player could move anywhere on the board for one extra LP, however, once there, if they wanted to move again, it would have to be a legal move. So if you moved onto a location that the opponent controls, with either a control marker, or a ship, then you would be stuck, since you could not legally move again since you would be forced to stop (unless in deep space).

Thanks for the responses. Really helped me clear up how the card should be used!
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Bond8089 wrote:
Ok, this makes sense. Just the fact that the player has to jump to a location where the other player isn't makes the card much less powerful (even though I am still trying to figure out exactly what in the rules prevents this).

Alan Emrich wrote:
*Exception: This special move’s destination location cannot be an opponent’s Safe Refuge space (7.3.1).

See the definition of Safe Refuge space, and you will see the rule which prevents moving to an opponent's space.
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Jason
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sdiberar wrote:
Bond8089 wrote:
Ok, this makes sense. Just the fact that the player has to jump to a location where the other player isn't makes the card much less powerful (even though I am still trying to figure out exactly what in the rules prevents this).

Alan Emrich wrote:
*Exception: This special move’s destination location cannot be an opponent’s Safe Refuge space (7.3.1).

See the definition of Safe Refuge space, and you will see the rule which prevents moving to an opponent's space.


BOOM! That clears it up!! Thanks to everyone for the responses!
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Russ Williams
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Bond8089 wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
Bond8089 wrote:
Ok, this makes sense. Just the fact that the player has to jump to a location where the other player isn't makes the card much less powerful (even though I am still trying to figure out exactly what in the rules prevents this).

Alan Emrich wrote:
*Exception: This special move’s destination location cannot be an opponent’s Safe Refuge space (7.3.1).

See the definition of Safe Refuge space, and you will see the rule which prevents moving to an opponent's space.


BOOM! That clears it up!! Thanks to everyone for the responses!


rule 7.3.1 wrote:
a Safe Refuge space, which is one that must contain only a friendly Control marker and/or friendly ships.


Wait... that means I CAN use this card to move a ship to a place where the other player has ships if I ALSO have ships there, because such a space is NOT an opponent's Safe Refuge space.

So I could move a ship (by normal means) to an opponent's Safe Refuge space (with an enemy ship or control marker, but not my own), and then use Subspace Navigation to move a faraway ship to that same space (which is not not a Safe Refuge).

Or does the card mean "*Exception: This special move’s destination location cannot be an opponent’s Safe Refuge space at the start of your player turn (7.3.1)." ?
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