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Subject: Why no Expansions for 3rd?? rss

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Shaun
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I'm sure this topic has been brought up ad nuaseum on this forum. But I just want to re-hash it I guess for my own education. Do you think they will EVER do an expansion reprint?? There's no way to make the existing expanions portable to 3rd, so this is the end?

Space Hulk Questions...Why no Ork infested space hulks?? Was this game always intended to be an "Aliens" themed creation set in 40K? I just got this game and am trying to wrap my head around it. Looks awesome...but it also looks finite.
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Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I've only played the 3rd edition. But to my understanding they incorporated some of the old expansions into this edition.
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Michele Esmanech
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The 3rd edition was a limited production, which is, by definition, a "finite" thing.

GW would never produce (and spend money on) expansionding a thing that few people have.

1st and 2nd editions were "open", and sold a LOT, so the many people that had the base game, could spend money on expansions;
for the number of people that have the 3rd edition game, GW will never make it's money's worth, out of expansions.

The silly thing, is that, if only GW re-printed this, they would sell just as much... but we all know that GW is lead by six-graders without any knowledge on how the market works...


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That is correct, 3rd edition incorporated the expansions, and also added a few extras [brood lord and the "guard" mechanic].

Games Workshop only has the materials to do plastic, not the cardboard tiles, and has to outsource the tiles. The only reason 3rd edition got made was because it coincided with the 25th anniversary of Space Hulk and GW was able to get a discount on a single large run of cardboard punchouts from a new company.

GW was also very specific on 3rd edition being limited, saying that they would consider doing a 50th anniversary edition when that came around.

Bottom line, Games Workshop is not a board game company any more, and they've frustratingly made it abundantly clear that they do not care about the longevity of any of their games that aren't the core three [that being Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000, and Lord of the Rings].
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Shaun
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How we all long for the early to mid-1990's again!! haha. Seriously...
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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burnside986 wrote:
Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as I've only played the 3rd edition. But to my understanding they incorporated some of the old expansions into this edition.

3rd Edition pretty much had everything from Space Hulk and Space Hulk: Deathwing Expansion (it's missing Solo play rules and the Ambush encounters, and some rules were tweaked). It expanded on the Librarian rules from Deathwing, making them more powerful but not as cool as the Space Hulk: Genestealer Expansion Librarians (yes, I said "not as cool", deal with it).

So all in all, if you missed out on 1st Ed, you got most of the best parts of it with the 3rd Ed game.

Doesn't mean though there couldn't have been an expansion. Hell, I would have just loved a book of missions like the Space Hulk Campaigns.

-shnar
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Slev Sleddeddan
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GW "took off" as a company in the early 90's. That's when things changed. They may still be run by gamers, but they are owned by lawyers. It's also when WFB and 40K reached critical mass and took-off big-time.

Since then, no "specialist" game has turned a profit after its second print run, many not after their first.

This makes it hard on the business to justify doing such open-ended releases. They could justify a self-contained, single run game though.

All the well regarded material form the earlier editions was included in the new set.

They where very up-front about their inentions from the word go.

Further, when games are kept in-print but there is no new material for them (e.g. Blood Bowl), some complain the game is "unsupported". However, when the company keeps the releases and updates coming (e.g. 40K), other groups complain about the constant "churn". The company can't win either way catering to their divergent fanbase.
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Testy Testerson
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Slev wrote:
]
Further, when games are kept in-print but there is no new material for them (e.g. Blood Bowl), some complain the game is "unsupported". However, when the company keeps the releases and updates coming (e.g. 40K), other groups complain about the constant "churn". The company can't win either way catering to their divergent fanbase.


"Churn" is a good word for what GW does, because they don't actually release much "new" content. They take the same models they already have released, shake up some of the numbers on the stat bar, and then push out a brand new edition that makes all those old models you lovingly customized to your fighting style unplayable. It's the perfect storm. You need new books to get the new rules, you need new models to get the proper loadout for the new rules, and they haven't had to release anything new to justify it apart from a couple new solo models and a print run of a codex! (Do I sound bitter? robot)

GW, in my opinion, is a trashy company. They don't even bother to conceal their marketing strategy anymore. There has never been even the semblance of balance due to their "rolling" updates of all the armies, since the new stuff almost invariably beats out armies that haven't gotten more recent support. It's not impossible for them to make it work either. Look at Privateer Press. That game gets crazy amounts of new content, and yet still manages to stay balanced, -while- they release content for -every- army at once.

Either way, [/rant over]. I think the best thing that Games Workshop ever did was decide to let FFG take over their boardgame and RPG rights. Say what you want about FFG, but they have done some fantastic work with the rich tapestry of storyline that GW has been squandering.
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Shaun
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Huge FAN of FFG's WHFRPG 3rd Edition. It's a shame that FFG, a specialist in cardboard and chits, can't put something out expansion wise, even if its just tiles and stats for new minis. Then, we'd go to GW to get the minis. Nope, instead FFG has to make a whole new SH game of their own using cards. Strange.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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AtomicReaction wrote:

Either way, [/rant over]. I think the best thing that Games Workshop ever did was decide to let FFG take over their boardgame and RPG rights. Say what you want about FFG, but they have done some fantastic work with the rich tapestry of storyline that GW has been squandering.

Man, if only FFG could make Space Hulk proper, not some stupid card game...

-shnar
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Shaun
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Word! Agreed, Shnar.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Slev wrote:
This makes it hard on the business to justify doing such open-ended releases. They could justify a self-contained, single run game though.


Yeah, but after the fiasco of Dreadfleet I doubt we'll even see single run games anymore. So much for my wish of seeing another Block Mania...

-shnar
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shnar wrote:
Slev wrote:
This makes it hard on the business to justify doing such open-ended releases. They could justify a self-contained, single run game though.


Yeah, but after the fiasco of Dreadfleet I doubt we'll even see single run games anymore. So much for my wish of seeing another Block Mania...

-shnar


Was that game any good? I took one look at Dreadfleet and went "meh". I've never seen a copy being played at the flgs either.

And i actually really am a WFB fan! I love tabletop minis and GW's are the best. But Dreadfleet.... shake

SH3ed reminds me of Doom: The Boardgame. It's a finished game, enjoy it for what it is.
 
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Mike Cathcart
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Poor Dreadfleet I still haven't assembled my ships yet because some of them look like they'd be easier to paint before assembly and I've been putting that off, but I thought the rules were really well written and got me excited to try the game at some point.
 
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Slev Sleddeddan
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Not finished painting mine either yet. RL and health problems got in the way. I'm about 60% finished. Needs a big push!
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Cracky wrote:
Was that game any good? I took one look at Dreadfleet and went "meh". I've never seen a copy being played at the flgs either.

I think that's what *everyone* did. It looks kinda cool, but I'm not about to drop OVER $100 (I think it's $120?) on a game that I probably won't ever play, hence the "meh" factor.

Unfortunately, a lot of retailers bought it hook line and sinker, at least out here. Every single FLGS has a stack of at least 10 boxes sitting there waiting for some sucker to buy.

GW took the brilliant success of Space Hulk and assumed it would translate to a completely unknown, unplayed, no-fan-base game and it didn't. The sad part is, this means the suits won't green light any other games, writing Space Hulk off as a fluke, so we'll never get that Hero Quest reprint...

-shnar
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Shaun
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Or...Warhammer Quest
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Slev Sleddeddan
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Crimso wrote:
Or...Warhammer Quest


Actually, WHQ would be an excellent candidate for a r-do, since, and here's the clever bit, they can include a bestiary for pretty much the whole WFB range.

This means it will continue to drive sales of figures after the likely single print run sells out.
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Testy Testerson
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Slev wrote:
Crimso wrote:
Or...Warhammer Quest


Actually, WHQ would be an excellent candidate for a r-do, since, and here's the clever bit, they can include a bestiary for pretty much the whole WFB range.

This means it will continue to drive sales of figures after the likely single print run sells out.


I don't see it happening. If only because GW making an intelligent business decision seems to go against their model
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Michele Esmanech
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Ikim wrote:
we all know that GW is lead by six-graders without any knowledge on how the market works...


'nough said
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I spoke to a one of the staff in my local GW store, he said they don't really get told anything about rereleases. He said he would be suprised if anything was rereleased within the next 2 years, implying he knows something about upcoming releases and that they won't involve warhammer quest.

Warhammer quest was brilliant because you could use pretty much anything you had from WHFB as the 'Bad guys' as you progressed with your heroes. I'm trying to get a copy on ebay but having to spend around £100 is annoying. I'm also trying to get a copy of space hulk, but have given up trying to get a 3rd edition, its incredibly expensive, 1st and 2nd editions seem to be much cheaper and as I have only played 2nd edition I'm happy to settle for an early version. Now I just need to persuade my gf to start playing!
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Sami Rautiainen
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I have been playing 3rd ed alot for a few years and some older campaigns such as Return to Kalidus and Designer's Cut etc. I recently got Deathwing and Genestealer expansions and Campaign book and they work just fine with 3rd ed tiles. Mix some rules and you are good to go. It will take a lifetime to explore all the corridors in Space Hulk.
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Cardboard Carnage wrote:
THIS POST REMOVED
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Is this a joke? Must be...
 
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shnar wrote:
Cracky wrote:
Was that game any good? I took one look at Dreadfleet and went "meh". I've never seen a copy being played at the flgs either.

I think that's what *everyone* did. It looks kinda cool, but I'm not about to drop OVER $100 (I think it's $120?) on a game that I probably won't ever play, hence the "meh" factor.

Unfortunately, a lot of retailers bought it hook line and sinker, at least out here. Every single FLGS has a stack of at least 10 boxes sitting there waiting for some sucker to buy.

GW took the brilliant success of Space Hulk and assumed it would translate to a completely unknown, unplayed, no-fan-base game and it didn't. The sad part is, this means the suits won't green light any other games, writing Space Hulk off as a fluke, so we'll never get that Hero Quest reprint...

-shnar


Possible other reason for the "meh" reaction is when someone realizes it isnt a Man O' War reprinting, despite hopes.
 
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