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Subject: Another batch of questions (revised printed rules) rss

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Thomas Lajeunesse
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Hello,

I've read a lot of posts today in order to find if some questions I have after my first two plays has been answered. I found some, but mostly I found a lot of variants discussed. It was all very interesting and... quite a bit confusing, to be honest. Therefore I compiled all these ideas I liked in a file that I will keep in store until I have managed a few more plays with the printed rules (actually, the revised ones downloaded on DVG site). Then I will print this file and choose which ones of these variants I will use to tweak the game to my convenience.

But for now, here are my remaining questions, if I may. blush

There is a Torpedo Attack Modifier of +1 if the target has a Heavy Damage counter on it.
-> If I launch a torpedo spread and the first torpedo achieves Heavy Damage to the target, do the following torpedoes gain immediately the +1 modifier, or are they considered to be simultaneous impacts ?
-> What about a gun attack ? There is also a +1 Gun Attack Modifier for a Heavy Damaged target, is the gun attack simultaneous with the torpedo shots or do they gain the +1 for a Heavy Damage counter placed just before on the same attack ?

If I want to fire a torpedo spread, I have to choose how many torpedoes I am firing. Then if one of them sinks the target, the others are lost. I also have to choose before rolling any dice if I want to add my gun attack to the torpedo one.
-> If torpedoes sink the target, is the gun ammo also spent in the air (gun and torpedoes being simultaneous), or not ?
-> If not, is it possible to choose another target for the gun or the firing has just been cancelled ?

Crash Dive : "Roll a die for each Enemy Ship attack. If the die roll is equal to or less than the U-Boat’s Evasion rating, the attack has no effect. If the die roll is greater than the Evasion rating, the attack is resolved normally using the Surface Hit numbers."
-> Is the attack resolved using the same die result, or is another die rolled for use with the Surface Hit numbers ?


For the remaining issues, I will just say how I understood the rules. Please tell me if I'm right or wrong in these assumptions.

-> Escorts move twice each turn. First in the Lag Movement segment, and then in the Escort Movement which occurs for each Escort just after its detection roll. And if there isn't any detected U-Boat, each Escort rolls its own dice for direction (one may go clockwise while another counter-clockwise).

-> If there are several detected U-Boats, it is said that we randomly determine which U-Boat the Escort moves toward. That means even if some U-Boats are closer to the Escort than others, the Escort may still go to the farthest one, even if she couldn't reach her target's area in this turn while she would have another one and gained the +2 attack modifier.

-> When you have a wolfpack (several U-Boats on the Tactical Display), when it is said that you have to declare all attacks before rolling any dice, it's still for only one U-Boat. You choose your first submarine, declare all attacks, resolve them, then you go to the next one.

-> Card #028, Dönitz takes notice : The victory points must all be earned in this turn by the same U-Boat which drawed the card.


Thank you for your help, and thank you David for this game. It is very entertaining and I love its simplicity (I am still struggling to get the grasp of Silent War and Steel Wolves)
I am looking forward for the Pacific version
And thank you also Dean (GrumpyOldGamer), and some others, for all these interesting ideas you put in this game (even if I'm quite sure I won't adopt them all...)
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Dean Brown
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Duncan,

I've been a little reluctant to "formalize" any variants here anymore because people interpret that to mean that the game is incomplete and shouldn't be purchased. Which is not the message that I or anyone else (I assume) is trying to convey. The game was designed as a fairly easy game in line with the other Leader games that can be played in a reasonable amount of time for the average gamer.

I only have two "variants" formally documented (medals and starting SO count levels of difficulty). I deleted the others that modified the actual gameplay because of the perception that the game was incomplete.

There are a lot of good ideas on the site for game variants, and I'm torn between formally documenting them versus letting everyone take ideas from the site and make their own rules.

Any thoughts?
 
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Dean Brown
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Duncan wrote:

There is a Torpedo Attack Modifier of +1 if the target has a Heavy Damage counter on it.
-> If I launch a torpedo spread and the first torpedo achieves Heavy Damage to the target, do the following torpedoes gain immediately the +1 modifier, or are they considered to be simultaneous impacts ?
-> What about a gun attack ? There is also a +1 Gun Attack Modifier for a Heavy Damaged target, is the gun attack simultaneous with the torpedo shots or do they gain the +1 for a Heavy Damage counter placed just before on the same attack ?


I don't have the rules in front of me, but when one torpedo in the spread causes heavy damage, i apply the +1 modifier to all the remaining torpedoes. I usually decide what order to attack, gun or torpedo (if i'm doing both). But yes, the gun modifier applies if a previous torpedo attack caused heavy damage and vice versa.

Duncan wrote:

If I want to fire a torpedo spread, I have to choose how many torpedoes I am firing. Then if one of them sinks the target, the others are lost. I also have to choose before rolling any dice if I want to add my gun attack to the torpedo one.
-> If torpedoes sink the target, is the gun ammo also spent in the air (gun and torpedoes being simultaneous), or not ?
-> If not, is it possible to choose another target for the gun or the firing has just been cancelled ?

I play that the gun ammo is spent.

Duncan wrote:

Crash Dive : "Roll a die for each Enemy Ship attack. If the die roll is equal to or less than the U-Boat’s Evasion rating, the attack has no effect. If the die roll is greater than the Evasion rating, the attack is resolved normally using the Surface Hit numbers."
-> Is the attack resolved using the same die result, or is another die rolled for use with the Surface Hit numbers ?

I roll another die.

Duncan wrote:

For the remaining issues, I will just say how I understood the rules. Please tell me if I'm right or wrong in these assumptions.

-> Escorts move twice each turn. First in the Lag Movement segment, and then in the Escort Movement which occurs for each Escort just after its detection roll. And if there isn't any detected U-Boat, each Escort rolls its own dice for direction (one may go clockwise while another counter-clockwise).

-> If there are several detected U-Boats, it is said that we randomly determine which U-Boat the Escort moves toward. That means even if some U-Boats are closer to the Escort than others, the Escort may still go to the farthest one, even if she couldn't reach her target's area in this turn while she would have another one and gained the +2 attack modifier.

-> When you have a wolfpack (several U-Boats on the Tactical Display), when it is said that you have to declare all attacks before rolling any dice, it's still for only one U-Boat. You choose your first submarine, declare all attacks, resolve them, then you go to the next one.

-> Card #028, Dönitz takes notice : The victory points must all be earned in this turn by the same U-Boat which drawed the card.

I think these are all correct.

Dean
 
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Dampenon Fabien
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Duncan wrote:
-> Card #028, Dönitz takes notice : The victory points must all be earned in this turn by the same U-Boat which drawed the card.


I have always thought I have to score these 9VP with all my U-Boats at sea in the Turn...not only by the U-Boat which drawed the Event...

I use optional (and harder) rule about Torpedo Spread and I have already some difficulties to score 9VP with more than one Sub in one Turn...
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Dean Brown
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The erratta mentions that you should check the VP totals at the end of the Tactical Segment. I assumed that meant the tactical turn of the current U-Boat that picked the event. I guess the "end of the Tactical Segment" could be interpreted as the end of all the tactical segments. It's definitely unclear.
 
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Thomas Lajeunesse
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Dampenon wrote:
I use optional (and harder) rule about Torpedo Spread and I have already some difficulties to score 9VP with more than one Sub in one Turn...

This 9 VP goal has been set with the standard rules. I imagine that if you use the optional torpedo spread rules, you could very well lower this requirement to 8, or even 7 VP. (it's the same kind of thing that when Dave says to add 20% of the VP earned to check for the success)...
 
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Thomas Lajeunesse
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GrumpyOldGamer wrote:
Duncan,

I've been a little reluctant to "formalize" any variants here anymore because people interpret that to mean that the game is incomplete and shouldn't be purchased. Which is not the message that I or anyone else (I assume) is trying to convey. The game was designed as a fairly easy game in line with the other Leader games that can be played in a reasonable amount of time for the average gamer.

I only have two "variants" formally documented (medals and starting SO count levels of difficulty). I deleted the others that modified the actual gameplay because of the perception that the game was incomplete.

There are a lot of good ideas on the site for game variants, and I'm torn between formally documenting them versus letting everyone take ideas from the site and make their own rules.

Any thoughts?

Dean,

Yep, I've seen your post where you answer to people wondering if the game was complete as it is in the box. This was very thoughtful of you and very respectful of the work of David.

I've been understanding what you were doing because I have already done the same kind of thing with other games that I was very fond of. Extending them with house rules just to make them even more mine, although they were all right from the start. I'm not doing this with wargames - yet - since I think I'm not expert enough in this field.
Experimenting with this kind of meddling needs quite some time, and one do it only with a game that succeded first in catching his interest enough.

So don't worry, I gathered all these ideas just for what they are : variants. U-Boat Leader is intended to be a simple fast-paced game, and I like it as it is. One day, out of curiosity, I may try these other ideas, but I will never see them as corrections brought to a defective game. And to be honest, when I will want something more realistic, I think I will get back to my Silent War and Steel Wolves boxes which are resting peacefully on my shelves...
But for now, David's game is simpler, it's faster, and it fits with the time I have. It suits me just fine.

Thanks again to both of you, David and Dean.
 
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