Eric Lustenberger
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Good morning,

I've recently acquired Descent and am an avid fan already, that's for sure! I've studied the rules for countless hours and have a question that seems very important.

It says in the base game that when the overlord goes through his entire deck of 36 cards the heroes lose 3 conquest tokens. Awesome. Now, when you mix in AoD, WoD and ToI those add a basic 12 cards to the deck which brings the total to 48 cards.

Now, if we kept the original rule of going through the deck, you lose out on 6 turns (not factoring Evil Genius) of opportunity to make the heroes lose conquest tokens. Is there any way to fix this and rebalance? Personally, I was thinking of when there are 12 cards left to have the heroes lose conquest points but I feel that's a really messy rule.

Did I miss a excerpt in a rule book that address' this?

Thanks in advance,

Eric
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Luke Butler
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Hey there. Welcome to Descent and the forums!

You didn't miss any rule. Unfortunately for the OL, that's the way it is. With the expansion cards added, it takes longer to go through the deck and therefore allows the heroes a few extra turns before they lose that 3 conquest.

However, this is more than made up for in all the OL buffs provided by the expansions (treachery cards, new monsters, dark glyphs, harder quests, etc). Believe me, heroes could probably use all the help they can get in many of the quests.

Once you've played a few games and become more familiar with the role of OL, you'll have no trouble making those heroes lose plenty of conquest tokens! devil
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Nate Bivins

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I believe this is a design decision. The new cards are in general more powerful, especially combined with treachery.

One of the ways to balance this added power to the OL is by having a larger deck to go through.

We play it without modification in this regard.
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Kaiwen Zhang
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well the treachy cards, the cursed portals all make the ol more powerful so it evens out i guess
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Eric Lustenberger
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Thanks for the replies.

I did see that dark glyphs, relics and treachery add a lot of power to the OL. As of right now I've only played the basic game. This question is more proactive for future games when I introduce expansions.

I've played about 10 games or so to this day. I've played about 7 of them as the OL and 3 as the heroes. I haven't lost as either yet, but that's probably due to the fact that I know the rules the best even though I explained them clearly.

When playing the heroes I always have a huge stockpile of conquest points so I just didn't want to lose an overlord advantage since I feel the heroes, when played well, can really topple an OL. Plus the fact that feats really introduce a mechanic to nerf the overlord scares me regarding game balance.
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Master of the Waz
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The quest you are playing will make a huge difference. Some of the early base game quests are a lot easier for the heroes to win.
 
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Eric Lustenberger
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So it seems it's fairly unanimous that with the addition of OL mechanics (treachery, dark glyphs, dark relics) and even quest difficulty themselves that the game is balanced without implementing a rule for the overlord deck shuffle. Does this factor in feats as well?

 
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Luke Butler
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Feats in ToI are a welcome (and much needed) boost to the heroes after the previous two expansions, WoD and AoD. Feats were an attempt to balance the game since many believed that the OL reaped most of the benefits of WoD and AoD.

My suggestion would be:

If you are planning to play Descent with any expansion(s), include everything from those expansions. Our play group tested some different combinations of the expansion stuff at first, but quickly came to the conclusion that the game is best played with all things included (things that help the heroes and the things that help the OL).

Descent is such a complex game that it may never find true balance, but that's why we are Descent fans!
 
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Andrew Clarke
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The Overlord's deck being 12 cards larger is *really* not a major balance element. The Overlord only loses less than 1 conquest per deck cycle, or probably less than 2 per game on average. The extra power the overlord gets from Treachery easily more than makes up for it.
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Jeremy Lennert
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I agree with yoacusna--the difficulty of the game will fluctuate much more based on the quest you're playing or the cards you draw than from changing the size of the overlord's deck, and it's far from the most important balance change introduced by expansions.

Even if you eventually decide that the overlord needs a buff, focusing on deck size is a waste of your time; there are plenty of bigger fish to fry.
 
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Eric Lustenberger
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Thanks everyone for the replies.

I have been going through the forums and found this old topic: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/91377/boosting-the-overlords...

It's a really creative way of boosting OL power if the heroes dominate. Some of them can be implemented in the middle of the game to adjust the balance accordingly.

Definitely agree with the last post that there are bigger fish to fry. I more wanted to understand if I was missing something regarding the OL deck shuffle.

Happy overlording everyone! Use the above link if your heroes are stomping through your games.
 
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