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Axis & Allies Air Force Miniatures: Angels 20» Forums » General

Subject: Anybody Win with the Zeroes? rss

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Curtis Thornock
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Idaho Falls
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As the title suggests, has anyone been able to take zeroes vs Wildcats and win in anything even remotely close to equal point values?

I know historically zeroes were a fireball awaiting a match, but in the early war, matches (experienced allied pilots & quality aircraft) were very few in number.

In the games I demoed at iCon this weekend we had to switch back to the BoB scenarios to keep folks from becoming frustrated. In numerous battles, I only remember one wildcat ever taking damage, and every zero, including the ace was shot down every game. Often in one attack.

I can't begin to imagine how lopsided the battles will be when Corsairs and Hellcats arrive in the next expansion.

On a more positive note, while typing this, I met a fellow who was a tail gunner on a B-17. Very cool coincidence. I was going to ask him his experience with zeroes, but it turns out (not surprisingly) he spent his entire tour of duty in Europe.
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Ubergeek
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Curious if you used the advanced rules or the basic ones.
 
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Curtis Thornock
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Yeah, should have mentioned...

Just basic. I know the advanced rules will have some effect, but enough to overcome a 100% loss ratio to 50/50?

I hope so. Otherwise, I'm going to be bummed. I grew up in Hawaii, and have loved all things PTO-WWII since Tora, Tora, Tora.
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Ubergeek
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Just a couple items of note that should have helped or may in the future. The Zero Ace's excellent ability is expert evasion. Once an attack is declared on it, he can then decide to evade left or right and the attacker suffers a -1 penalty on each attack die. Huge benefit that should be used almost any time he's attacked since he suffers no penalty for evading. Another points of note is the Zeros' both outstrip the climb capability of either Wildcat with a 5 vs 2 modifier. With the advanced rules you'll get the jump on them with another +1 per die on a diving attack. You also get a +1 in attacking them if they're trying to climb since you have the better climb rating then either of them. Use the Zero Ace's speed advantage to close the gap fast and then use the advantage of the hard turn/split S Superior Training ability to get around on your opponent's tail.

Also the Zeke should lower the die rolls from the F4F-4 by 1 since he's an expert dogfighter and the F4F-4 is only an average pilot.

Finally, if you play historic, the F4F-4 is a 1942 aircraft (with better fire power). You should only be pitting the F4F-3 against the Zero Ace and Zeke. Or maybe match a Flying Tiger against them since they're 1941 birds.

The advanced rules do put a bit of extra realism into the game.
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Curtis Thornock
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Yeah, these were just quick demos at a Con, so I didn't want to get into to many rules for the new players.

I definitely saw the potential they'd have in the climbing game, if the Japanese can keep initiative and the altitude advantage, but increasing the to-hit number to a six doesn't help all that much when a 6 is enough to cripple them. And once crippled, say goodbye to them.

I guess I'm disappointed in the lack of specific SAs to better mitigate that. I've found a couple of suggestions on the AAminis forums, with the one I like the most being an SA Agile - when undamaged, this model suffers only one damage point from natural 6 hits.

Good point on the F4F-4 though. A6M3 and A6M5 should have been in this set perhaps.

Mostly, I felt bad the point costs led me to believe the Americans would actually be out-classed. Now that I've played enough samples, I'd have to say they either got the point costs way wrong, or they should have separate values for basic vs advanced rules.

I hope to be proven wrong while testing the difference with the advanced rules and more aggressive application of the vertical plane. It'll be next weekend at the earliest before I can test it with some of our better players though.

I'll let you know. Thanks for the direction. cool
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Ubergeek
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Looking forward to reading your results. I have to agree about the point costing for the Zero's. Despite their pilot status, they should be lower, even if only slightly for the one hit and they're crippled issue.
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Don McCalmon
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The Zeros are not for beginner pilots. They take more finesse to win. You can't just go straight at the enemy and hope to out gun them. One 6 and the Zeros are crippled.

For demo games, you are better off stay with the starter set planes.
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Kevin Smith
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There have been several discussions on this very topic at the Axis and Allies forum.

http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/index.php

The majority opinion seems to be that they are hard to win with in the game as is, but by giving the zero and zero ace the house rule special ability of "Agile" or "Nimble" (name hasn't been decided on yet) it brings their point costs more in line with the rest of the planes.

Agile/Nimble: The first six in any attack counts as one hit only.

Note that a build of zeros mixed with other planes is more manageable, but any zero forced to move first has problems.

Kevin

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bubba-earl ledbetter
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These were DANGEROUS OPPONENTS! Make no mistake. Being how these aircraft lacked the cockpit armor and self sealing tanks of their western counterparts, but at the same time wern't exactly flimsy, try these mod stats for bothe the "Zeke" and the "Ace"....
ARMOR: 3
VITAL: 4
HITS: 3

Flammable: If an opponent scores more hits on this aircraft than its armor, roll a die. On a 5 or 6, destroy immediately.
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