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Summoner Wars» Forums » Strategy

Subject: how can deep dwarves win? rss

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Steven Long
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look like this faction is weakest.last night i played against shadow elves, and losing...skill of miners is useless(spend 1 magic pont to move to adjacent other miners,what for?), gem mages are strong but lacking of heal(1point),scholars is useless.Champions is weak! so bad! how do you think about this faction? what is strategy?
 
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Brandon M
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Columbus
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“Games give you a chance to excel, and if you're playing in good company you don't even mind if you lose because you had the enjoyment of the company during the course of the game.” ― Gary Gygax
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Play defensively. Others with more experience can elaborate, but you build that magic pile and wait for opponent to leave an opening for you to strike, or make your own opening with the proper mix of event cards.

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The Other Tom
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Wow, they are one of my favorite factions to play with. Definitely turtle early in the game...they are all about magic.

I think I just prefer the more defensive factions though. Vanguards are my favorite.
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Purple Paladin

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There is an event card, forget the exact name, that lowers the cost of all magic used by 1 for that turn. That pretty much means 0 cost for most magic use for most every unit that turn.

I play DD like a cat: Stay back in the grass; strike your pounce posistion; and when you get the above card, pounce!
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Steven Long
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do you know how to use scholars? and miners?
 
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Jeremy Yoder
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I find them a bit overpowered. Kynder is one of the best champs in all of SW. By sitting back and meditating, your opponent has to come to you. When he does, Kynder, Scholars, Gem Mages, and Lun can do nasty things with their abilities.
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glenn3e glenn3e
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You got to learn how to turtle effectively. Turtle like your name is Tundle.
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Fede Miguez
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yeah, they are a tricky faction but super powerful one. Can't help much if you don't provide specific problems. In general your starting miners are for you to buy time to set up your good stuff (and get your walls ASAP). Then your Gem Mages can deal a lot of damage and hide back, just spending magic on them (so they can last a long time). Backing this up with Meditate you can out last your opponent. Going heavy Gem Mage will mean you rarely summon more than 2 champions.
Lun and Kynder are crazy combined together. Lun is easier to use, just let him in the back with Tundle and murder any common that gets remotely near you. Kynder is great to put stuff when you need it. They are a combo faction so it takes some time to make all the tools they have shine, but when they do... OH MY!
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Brian Gee
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Some good suggestions already, but I do agree with the OP that the Shadow Elves matchup is a tough one.

Miners are not really useful against summoners with high health but they can be useful to rush a low health summoner. One thing to note with Miners is that you only need to pay the magic once, and you can use the ability for all Miners. Also, you can use the ability after moving a miner, so for example you can:

1. Move a miner closer to the enemy summoner
2. Put another miner next to that one
3. Put a third miner next to the second one (hopefully now in range to attack)

This allows you to get a lot more range of movement to get at a summoner. Also, they then have to deal with 3 different 2 health commons that are close to their summoner. And you can do it all with only one magic.

That said, this play doesn't always work, and sometimes you just miss on the roll and then they all get wiped out. I'm not a huge fan of miners and usually swap them out for other commons but sometimes I'll try a play like this with the starting miners. Not against shadow elves though!

Also, I think the reinforcement champion Gren is really helpful with the turtle strategy so I would recommend him. I've swapped Sprog out for him.
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James Sitz
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My pithy response was gonna be "have you tried killing the other guy's summoner? I find that I win when I can do that."

But then people had to go and be helpful.

downstream wrote:
Some good suggestions already, but I do agree with the OP that the Shadow Elves matchup is a tough one.


Yeah. When I played the DD at GenCon last summer, my only loss was to the Shadow Elves. I thought I was safe pushing with Tundle for one turn when I used Magic Stasis, but I missed my attacks and got clobbered.

Put Tundle in your back row ASAP in this matchup, and figure out a way to protect him. Try to draw quickly until you draw your second wall.

In general, I find that the DD are a pretty powerful faction, but have one of the steepest learning curves and highest skill ceilings. With strong play, they can be as good as any other faction.

If it's your first five to ten games, I'd suggest trying the others out first.
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Purple Paladin

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So true Jexik. I played DD my very first game. But that was a good thing, since I was concerned the game would be so simple-minded. Wrong. I won, but barely, but was thinking: "OMG, this is way more complex than I thought."

2 new players I've been playering with stated (after several bad die rolls) they did not not the dice aspect. But I told them to just imagine the game "without" any dice; = borring, no tension; no risk; and add 10 times to any AP.
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David Boeren
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Purple Paladin wrote:
I played DD my very first game. But that was a good thing, since I was concerned the game would be so simple-minded. Wrong. I won, but barely, but was thinking: "OMG, this is way more complex than I thought."


There's certainly something to that. It's common advice to start beginners with an "easy" faction, but my first games with the Mountain Vargarth and Tundra Orcs weren't all that impressive due to their simplicity and the other factions didn't get much chance to impress me either as they were smashed before they did much. So, initially I thought there wasn't that much to the game.

After trying some other factions like Benders I've got a better opinion of it, there actually IS more going on.

I still can't help but feel it's the Lite version of the game I really want, but not as Lite as it seemed at first.

Also, if you introduce the game to anyone with a minis background, give them a harder faction to start with
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Cory Bullock
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dboeren wrote:
Purple Paladin wrote:
I played DD my very first game. But that was a good thing, since I was concerned the game would be so simple-minded. Wrong. I won, but barely, but was thinking: "OMG, this is way more complex than I thought."


There's certainly something to that. It's common advice to start beginners with an "easy" faction, but my first games with the Mountain Vargarth and Tundra Orcs weren't all that impressive due to their simplicity and the other factions didn't get much chance to impress me either as they were smashed before they did much. So, initially I thought there wasn't that much to the game.


I personally know that if I'd gotten PE v. TO first instead of GD v. CG, I probably wouldn't've liked the game as much either. The latter two decks had more going on to a new player than those first two. I still recommend any person who comes from a CCG/LCG background to get that before the PE/TO for the reasons described here.

I feel like half my posts on BGG are to this point. I think I found my calling.
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Steven Long
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thanks you! last night, DD vs SE...DD won! i play defensively, as you advised. i builded walls and let lun at back them. using skill of lun to get common units and kill! defend and collect magic point; sometimes i attack with miners and gemmage, scholars to barrie...and at end game, my opponent exhausted units; i still had units and champions on hand. i collected magic point every turn and summon champions and kill opponent's summoner! i won but my opponent(my brother) said that it is not persuaded!
but i think it is a style!
look like SE is stronger when meeting DD. very hard to defend from them, they fast and have many units. may be i will try DD with other factions.
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Moosey
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I rarely play defensively. I discovered on my own Vanguard have to play defensively (they are soooo bad otherwise). But did not realize that with Deep Dwarves. DD and Shadow Elves are two of my least favorites of the ones I own (I don't own the ones from the first 2 sets atm). But, I'm excited to play with this general mentality regarding DD. I have discovered that many of the factions are go, but require different play styles to be most effective. Which is one thing I love about SW.
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Mike Beiter
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I am fairly new to the game and enjoy it a lot. Only played 4 times. I played the Deep Dwarves for the first time and I was not given the chance to play defensively. My opponent won initiative, charged me with his Mountain Vargath and by my first turn I was already down a couple commons, and my opponent had 3 units on my side of the board. From that point I was fighting just to get a foot hold and stay alive.

He then pushed forward with his Summoner, pinned mine down and it became a summoner on summoner slug fest.

Can you start a defensive strategy when the enemy is already directly engaging you on all fronts? Or at that point do you just fight back as hard as you can and hope to push them off of you?

I would have loved to have turtled up or somehow get a defensive formation, but from what I saw, there was just no option.

Perhaps it was a bad match up? The Mountain Vargath appears to be one of if not the most aggressive race, and since I lost initiative, my strategy was chosen for me.
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Jeremy Yoder
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
Can you start a defensive strategy when the enemy is already directly engaging you on all fronts? Or at that point do you just fight back as hard as you can and hope to push them off of you?

I would have loved to have turtled up or somehow get a defensive formation, but from what I saw, there was just no option.

Perhaps it was a bad match up? The Mountain Vargath appears to be one of if not the most aggressive race, and since I lost initiative, my strategy was chosen for me.


Yeah, you have to adjust your strategy to the player/race across the table, and in this case, the Vargath should be in your face -- that's how they win. In this case, for you, early Walls, Summoning Surge, Magic Stasis, and Illusionary Warrior (maybe with one of his Brutes) will help a lot.

Because Sunderved is on your doorstep, if you can get Kynder in and pull Sunderved in even closer and hit him hard (and mostly surround him to cut off his Muster support) it'll probably make him pull back next turn and you can start playing more defensive. But there's no guaranteed formula, because even if you win, you'll still have a bloody nose against a good Vargath player.
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