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Subject: Is the Kickstarter version really worth $30+ more than the coming retailer version? rss

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What do you think?

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Chuck Tewksbury
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I think yes - and you can "kickstart" for the same price as the game will retail for if you so choose.
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Jeff Johnson
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Yes.

Exclusive counter sheet.

Options to get extra dice, etc.

Free shipping... and receive it way early.

No hassle dealing with incompetent/uncaring/rude store personnel that are liable to screw this up somehow. (Maybe your store is better.)
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ctewks wrote:
I think yes - and you can "kickstart" for the same price as the game will retail for if you so choose.


What do you mean? I'm guessing Miniature Market will have this for $70ish (free shipping over $100). A far cry from $100.
 
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Scott Pizio
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I already have an order in with a FLGS at $69. Most of the Kickstarter extras are being included in the retail version. In my opinion those that are exclusive are not worth $30.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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Kickstarter version: $100.
Contains Ogre 6E, Ogre Minis (PDF), Ogre Book (PDF), Ogre Scenario Book 1 (PDF), Kickstarter exclusive counter sheets, postage.

Retail version: RRP $100.
Contains Ogre 6E.

IF some web stores/FLGS discount the $100, then (after postage etc) it MAY work out a little cheaper, but it's a risk.
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Todd Warnken
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This is pretty much the issue with all kickstater projects. If you buy the game by supporting the kickstarter project then you are buying the game at full retail when you could wait and buy it from an on-line retailer at a discount. But if you don't support then maybe the project doesn't reach its funding level (not the case here) and you miss out on exclusive content.
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Trent Hamm
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Mundane wrote:
This is pretty much the issue with all kickstater projects. If you buy the game by supporting the kickstarter project then you are buying the game at full retail when you could wait and buy it from an on-line retailer at a discount. But if you don't support then maybe the project doesn't reach its funding level (not the case here) and you miss out on exclusive content.


Alternately, no one funds the Kickstarter and the game doesn't get made because the publisher sees a lack of support for the idea.
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It depends on how big of a fan you are. To me, the extra counter sheets and scenarios exclusive to Kickstarters are worth it.

I think this is why some projects do better than others. D-Day dice had exclusives as did Agents of SMERSH. It kind of sucks for those that don't get in on Kickstarter, but it makes it worth it for those that fund it from the beginning and pay full price.
 
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Slev wrote:

IF some web stores/FLGS discount the $100, then (after postage etc) it MAY work out a little cheaper, but it's a risk.


Miniature Market and Coolstuff will likely sell it at $70 + free shipping over $100. What "risk" are you talking about? Honest question.

Do you think they'll run out of copies? That would be a legitimate reason to Kickstart rather than save money.
 
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trenttsd wrote:

Alternately, no one funds the Kickstarter and the game doesn't get made because the publisher sees a lack of support for the idea.


Yeah, buying from Kickstarter isn't about how much the game costs, it's showing support for getting the game made and encouraging future development. It's like interactive marketing. SJG could just place the game on the market blind, not knowing how much real interest there is, but now they know there is at least a core group willing to pay full retail (and more) for the product and presumably a whole nother group willing to pay retailer discounted prices.

Kickstarter is for people who want to be part of the new Ogre roll-out, people who just want to play can wait to buy on the regular market. Especially at this point in the funding.
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Jefferson Krogh
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Boogalou wrote:
Slev wrote:

IF some web stores/FLGS discount the $100, then (after postage etc) it MAY work out a little cheaper, but it's a risk.


Miniature Market and Coolstuff will likely sell it at $70 + free shipping over $100. What "risk" are you talking about? Honest question.

Do you think they'll run out of copies? That would be a legitimate reason to Kickstart rather than save money.


The margins on this one are so thin, and the box so freaking heavy (15 pounds), that I really do wonder if OLGSes will be able to sell it with their usual markdowns and shipping policies...
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Scott Pizio
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I was surprised this even hit Kickstarter. This isn't a little guy struggling for finances for a project that may not go forward if the KS campaign fails. It isn't even an established company taking a chance on a new designer. This is a project that is going to happen. SJ wants it. It would have been made even if the KS campaign failed. It is great that the support is there. We may see expansions or additional material as a result of it, however this could have happened without KS if retail sales were good.
 
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ctewks wrote:
I think yes - and you can "kickstart" for the same price as the game will retail for if you so choose.


Exactly. One copy of Ogre through Kickstarter is $100 and the MSRP will be $100. We have no control over any discounts that a retailer may apply to that. Any cost differences you see are because a retailer decided to apply a discount to a game and NOT because we are charging more for one version than the other.
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$30 will buy you another NEW game...
 
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Karl Gallagher
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Slev wrote:
Kickstarter version: $100.
Contains Ogre 6E, Ogre Minis (PDF), Ogre Book (PDF), Ogre Scenario Book 1 (PDF), Kickstarter exclusive counter sheets, postage.


I thought the PDFs were only included with the $150 game + swag deal, not the $100 game level.
 
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selenite wrote:
Slev wrote:
Kickstarter version: $100.
Contains Ogre 6E, Ogre Minis (PDF), Ogre Book (PDF), Ogre Scenario Book 1 (PDF), Kickstarter exclusive counter sheets, postage.


I thought the PDFs were only included with the $150 game + swag deal, not the $100 game level.


Nope, the $100 level includes the $25 and $10 levels, which includes the PDF's.
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spizio wrote:
I was surprised this even hit Kickstarter. This isn't a little guy struggling for finances for a project that may not go forward if the KS campaign fails. It isn't even an established company taking a chance on a new designer. This is a project that is going to happen. SJ wants it. It would have been made even if the KS campaign failed. It is great that the support is there. We may see expansions or additional material as a result of it, however this could have happened without KS if retail sales were good.


For those that haven't seen it and wonder the same, here is Steve's answer directly from the Kickstarter page:

"Why are we using Kickstarter, if we’re going to do the project anyway? Three reasons:

- First, our margin on this game is low, so we had to be conservative in our plans. We couldn’t put a 10-year supply in the warehouse. We were going to print only 3,000, which is the absolute minimum we were sure of selling in a year or so. There would probably not have been expansion sets, or even a reprint. Something that’s expensive to do at 3,000 units is impossible at 1,000!

But with Kickstarter, we can reach a lot of people quickly, and gauge our support. If the initial print run can be bigger, fine! If the gamers show that they want an expansion set later, then I get to do it!

- Second, because I got literally hundreds of requests to pre-order the game, and we don’t do pre-orders. When we get our new shopping cart set up, sure . . . but that won’t be any time soon. By using Kickstarter, we get a pre-order system automatically. And, because so many people said they wanted more than one copy, we’re offering options for two and even three.

- Third, because with Kickstarter we can have stretch goals, which will let us add more components and improve the ones that are already there. (Edit: And boy, oh, boy, did THAT work out well!)

The $200,000 stretch goal is the one that excites me the most, because that’s the level where we can afford to turn the two two-sided maps into four one-sided maps. That doubles the potential play area. (Edit: DONE!)"



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Mike Malley
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B&Ms can get four games for $300, so it selling for less than $75 would surprise me.
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Philip
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It also might be who you want to support more as well. A lot of people like to see their money go directly into the pocket of SJG. Others may want to support their local shop and buy from them instead.
 
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Steve Duke
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Does anyone know if what is shown is the final art for both the units and the Ogres, or are those just prototypes?

 
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GeoMan wrote:
$30 will buy you another NEW game...


Maybe the games YOU buy.

My last five games purchased: Dragon Rage, Festung Budapest, Where Eagles Dare, Gears of War: The Board Game and Dungeons & Dragons: Conquest of Nerath Board Game.

I've been waiting 30+ years for a version of Ogre like this one. $30 ain't even worth worrying about.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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milgate wrote:
GeoMan wrote:
$30 will buy you another NEW game...


Maybe the games YOU buy.

My last five games purchased: Dragon Rage, Festung Budapest, Where Eagles Dare, Gears of War: The Board Game and Dungeons & Dragons: Conquest of Nerath Board Game.

I've been waiting 30+ years for a version of Ogre like this one. $30 ain't even worth worrying about.


It'll buy you a copy of Fluxx or maybe a small expansion for something, but not very much.
 
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sduke wrote:
Does anyone know if what is shown is the final art for both the units and the Ogres, or are those just prototypes?


I have learned from a few years of experience that ANYTHING we show isn't final until the game is on shelves. I've seen changes made AFTER we've output film; if we catch an error, or think of a better way to handle something, we'll make changes at any point in the process.

So, for now, the counters are final. We may alter them. We may not.
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Jay Sheely
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Philip, could we get more picture of what is actually in the game... so far?

Thanks, Jay
 
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