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Hey all,

Not the best with numbers and working out mental math, so I was hoping you lovely folks could help me out. I looked on the web for different tournament formats, but didn't find anything about what I'm looking for specifically.

I want to have a Dominion tournament with 12 people. Dominion can be played with 2-4 players but I'm hoping to have the first round with 4 players, the last round with just 2 players and the semi and/or quarter-finals with either 3 or 4. I hope that's not too confusing.

I was thinking: 3 points for 1st place, 2 for second, 1 for third, 0 for fourth in the first round. Maybe have each person play 3 games each, and at the end, eliminate the 4 people with the lowest score. I don't exactly want to set groups of 4 (a newer player might get stuck with a really good player and just feel like shit), but rather have 3 games where people shuffle around (either randomly or based on points.. I'm still not sure about this yet. Maybe random is best?).

So, first round would be 12, second 8, third 4 and finals 2 people. For the second round, should I have 3 games again where the 4 lowest scores are dropped? I'd rather not have 3 games the third round as the tournament might have dragged on too long by then.

Ah... I'm all over the place, sorry. I'm just trying to ensure that everyone gets a good share of games, doesn't get stuck in a difficult group and where the later rounds don't last too long. I'm up for scraping my whole model if you have something better in mind. I apologize if this is the wrong forum also.
 
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Pablo Schulman
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hmmm... i thought about the problem a bit and the better I could think was:

First round:

Round-robin: 3 groups of 4 players

Every player would play four 3-player games against EVERY player on his group. Four games are pretty good for someone who might not advance through the tournament.

Best 2 in each group advances along with the 2 best third players.

Second round:

Round robin 2: 3 groups of 4 players

Again the same pattern, but now only best 2 of each group advances. Again, every player would play 4 games)

Third and last round:

Can be two player games, every one against each other (winner is the best result) (3 more games)

OR

One final four player game (winner is the tournament winner) (1 more game)
 
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Matt Riddle
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how are you handling decks? draft?
 
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J F
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PSchulman wrote:
hmmm... i thought about the problem a bit and the better I could think was:

First round:

Round-robin: 3 groups of 4 players

Every player would play four 3-player games against EVERY player on his group. Four games are pretty good for someone who might not advance through the tournament.

hmm.. not sure if I'm understanding this, or how there are four 3-player games instead of three. For example, group A has players P1, P2, P3 and P4. The first game would be P1, P2, P3, next would be P1, P2, P4, and next P1, P3, P4. P1 would then have played every combination of 3-player games and would have finished now, wouldn't he?


PSchulman wrote:

Second round:

Round robin 2: 3 groups of 4 players

Again the same pattern, but now only best 2 of each group advances. Again, every player would play 4 games)

I'm guessing you means 2 groups of 4 players here (unless I missed something)?
PSchulman wrote:

Third and last round:

Can be two player games, every one against each other (winner is the best result) (3 more games)

OR

One final four player game (winner is the tournament winner) (1 more game)

Yeah, I'm kind of liking the 4 player idea. If one of the newer players has played 3 or 4 player games only (there will be some first time players) but makes it into the final round, they might be a bit thrown off by the differences presented in 2 player games. I'm actually thinking a 4 player game in the last round where first person with 2 wins is grand champion.

Thanks for all the input so far, PSchulman--very much appreciated.
riddlen wrote:
how are you handling decks? draft?

Hmmm.. I was going to just randomize it I suppose. Ideally, I would like a good mix of +action, +buy, +money, etc but I don't know how I would make balanced decks without seeming like I already have pre-planned strategies. On one hand, I think it will be harder for newer players if some cards don't naturally synergize with each other (they won't pick up the common combo strategies), and also games might just drag on very long based on the randomized cards. On the other hand, random seems like a completely fair way to do it.

If it helps, I only have Dominion, Intrigue and Seaside at the moment.
 
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Steven Metzger
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Generally, the accepted tournament norm is 2p games, but that's when playing online.

I'd focus on one playercount only, and either 2p or 3p (not both, and not 4p). That will make it clear what version of the game you're playing and be easier for you to organize properly. Dominion changes significantly with different playercounts (not more significantly than most comparable eurogames, but still does), so you're getting the benefit of having it be a 3-player tournament only, or a 2-player tournament only.

If you're doing 2p, have everyone play 4 opponents (being first player half of the times), then seed the best 6 players in a single-elimination tournament.

If you're doing 3p, I'd have everyone play 3 games (6 different opponents), then seed the best 5 players in a single-elimination tournament.

Best = most wins, not any other stupidity like points or points percentage.
 
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Pablo Schulman
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done_son wrote:
hmm.. not sure if I'm understanding this, or how there are four 3-player games instead of three. For example, group A has players P1, P2, P3 and P4. The first game would be P1, P2, P3, next would be P1, P2, P4, and next P1, P3, P4. P1 would then have played every combination of 3-player games and would have finished now, wouldn't he?


You're right, there are 4 different match-ups (4 different ways of combining 3 players in a 4 players group) with each player playing 3 games.


done_son wrote:
I'm guessing you means 2 groups of 4 players here (unless I missed something)?


Again, my bad lol. Exactly, second round is made of 8 players divided in 2 groups of four players each.

done_son wrote:
Yeah, I'm kind of liking the 4 player idea. If one of the newer players has played 3 or 4 player games only (there will be some first time players) but makes it into the final round, they might be a bit thrown off by the differences presented in 2 player games. I'm actually thinking a 4 player game in the last round where first person with 2 wins is grand champion.


Yeah, but worse case it would mean playing 5 games in the final round.

done_son wrote:
Thanks for all the input so far, PSchulman--very much appreciated. Hmmm.. I was going to just randomize it I suppose. Ideally, I would like a good mix of +action, +buy, +money, etc but I don't know how I would make balanced decks without seeming like I already have pre-planned strategies. On one hand, I think it will be harder for newer players if some cards don't naturally synergize with each other (they won't pick up the common combo strategies), and also games might just drag on very long based on the randomized cards. On the other hand, random seems like a completely fair way to do it. If it helps, I only have Dominion, Intrigue and Seaside at the moment.


You can play with the "recommended sets of 10" in vanilla Dominion.
 
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J F
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metzgerism wrote:
Generally, the accepted tournament norm is 2p games, but that's when playing online.

I'd focus on one playercount only, and either 2p or 3p (not both, and not 4p). That will make it clear what version of the game you're playing and be easier for you to organize properly. Dominion changes significantly with different playercounts (not more significantly than most comparable eurogames, but still does), so you're getting the benefit of having it be a 3-player tournament only, or a 2-player tournament only.

If you're doing 2p, have everyone play 4 opponents (being first player half of the times), then seed the best 6 players in a single-elimination tournament.

If you're doing 3p, I'd have everyone play 3 games (6 different opponents), then seed the best 5 players in a single-elimination tournament.

Best = most wins, not any other stupidity like points or points percentage.

I'd rather keep it 3-4 for practical reasons. That is, it'll be a kind of 'dominion tournament games' night,' and I only have 2 playable sets (victory cards/money) between Dominion, Intrigue and Seaside. Don't want it to last forever. If I was holding a more serious tournament and wasn't constrained by time I think 2-player games would be good, but it's just some friends getting together to play (should have mentioned that in the first post, my bad!). Thanks for the input.

PSchulman wrote:


done_son wrote:
Yeah, I'm kind of liking the 4 player idea. If one of the newer players has played 3 or 4 player games only (there will be some first time players) but makes it into the final round, they might be a bit thrown off by the differences presented in 2 player games. I'm actually thinking a 4 player game in the last round where first person with 2 wins is grand champion.


Yeah, but worse case it would mean playing 5 games in the final round.

I don't mind this as it might contribute to the 'epicness' of the final round ^^
PSchulman wrote:


done_son wrote:
Thanks for all the input so far, PSchulman--very much appreciated. Hmmm.. I was going to just randomize it I suppose. Ideally, I would like a good mix of +action, +buy, +money, etc but I don't know how I would make balanced decks without seeming like I already have pre-planned strategies. On one hand, I think it will be harder for newer players if some cards don't naturally synergize with each other (they won't pick up the common combo strategies), and also games might just drag on very long based on the randomized cards. On the other hand, random seems like a completely fair way to do it. If it helps, I only have Dominion, Intrigue and Seaside at the moment.


You can play with the "recommended sets of 10" in vanilla Dominion.

Yeah that sounds like a good idea. Between D/I/S, there are 11 recommended sets of 10. What I'm thinking is putting these in a hat (as well as a few more community-generated ones to account for the maximum number of games--which will be more than 11) and have people draw for which game they will be playing. If a group draws a set that has a card currently in use by the other group playing, they will just put it back in the hat and draw another one. After each set is played, it will be removed from the hat, ensuring no set is repeated (a fairness measure: if one person had played with that set in a previous game, they will be at an advantage knowing what strategies may or may not work).

If anyone has any good resources for finding good sets between Dominion to Seaside, it'd be helpful. I'm having a bit of trouble finding community-generated (vs. ones recommended in the guidebooks themselves) sets of 10 just limited to Seaside and before. Organizing this is actually quite fun. Thanks for all the help so far, community!
 
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Jonathan Ham
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I can see this being done Swiss-style. What's great about Swiss is that no player's really "eliminated", so everyone gets to play every round. My explanation here will be for 4-man tables, but it can easily be adjusted to 3 or 2.

Round 1 you can randomly seat the players.

Round 2, rank all players by their scores (your 3-2-1-0 system would work well) and seat the top 4 together, then the next 4, then the bottom 4. Randomize ties, so the top table will have all three people with a 3 score and one 2, middle table has two 2s and two 1s, and the bottom table has a 1 and all three zeroes.

For each subsequent round, rank the players by their cumulative scores and seat them the same way (top 4 together, etc.)

Play a set number of rounds, and the player with the highest cumulative points wins. You can even take the top players at the end of it and put them together in a finals game if you want.
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Maarten Robinson
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I like the 12 people bit ...

Rd-1
3 tables of 4p
abcd efgh jklm
[not seeded ie random]

then
4 tables of 3p

Rd-2
aej bfk cgl dhm

and again 4 of 3p

Rd-3
afl bgm chj dek

Scoring each table would be 6420 or 630 for 4p and 3p respectively [with ties being the avge of the two posns]

then rank all the players with their total score from the 3 rnds.

Then a Swiss round to help balance any unfair initial allocations ...

back to 3 table of 4p
Rd-4
top 4 at first table, then next 4 at the next and the bottom 4 at the third table.

same points allocations 6420

total all 4 rnds.
tank all the players
1st,2,3,4 .... 11,12th
then seed for the next round

table 1:
1,4,7,10

table 2:
2,5,8,11

table 3:
3,6,9,12

then the same points and now you have a final ranking from which to select for your semi-finals

top 3 play table 1

next 3 play table 2

then for the final and to get the top 6 players ...

the top 2 from table 1 play a 2p game,
the last from table 1 with the top from table 2 play 2p for 3rd place
and the remaining players a 2p for 5 and 6th place.

This then gives all players a mix of 3p and 4p and the finalists get to play a 2p [which you could do as best of three 2p games in the final if you wanted].

I haven't mentioned which sets to use ... but would suggest that for each of the first 5 rounds the same combinations of sets are used at all tables and pref. the same kingdom cards.

Just a passing thought when I came across this forum in my travels round dominion related stories.

take care and good dominionising.

tRev

 
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