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Subject: Is there a minimum movement? rss

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Ubergeek
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I ran across a situation today playing the scenario Slogging through the Mud. The scenario drops movement by 1" off the bat. Then I had a weather event that came up that reduced movement by 2" for the rest of the turn. I had guys like Dreher with a movement of 3 unable to move at all. I also came across a situation with the reduced movement of one to begin with and then soldiers getting pinned. With a movement of 4", reduced to 3" by the scenario and then getting pinned cut their movement in half to 1.5 reduced to 1" (toward zero) and then being in a space with a -1 movement modifier not allowing them to move at all.

So is there a minimum movement or can guys get stuck at zero movement?

For the sake of playability, I allowed minimum movement of 1" regardless of what the combined modifiers may have forced. I just didn't see it as realistic that someone, perhaps not even being pinned, could be reduced to zero movement. Did I miss anything?
 
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Kevin Duke
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I'd say you caught something instead.
 
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Rob Belli
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No there is no minimal movement. Just like getting pinned and being in terrain with a -Move mod, it can happen.
 
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Andrew DiGregorio
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i cant find the thread right now, but i know it had been discussed here somewhere that there WERE times, like you are describing, that a soldier simply cannot move.
 
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Ubergeek
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Another problem I see with the issue is it could affect rally ability as well. Rally is based on the unit movement distance. If it goes to zero, they can't even self rally. I have a real problem with that.

I had my guy pinned in a square where his movement was zero. He couldn't even self rally. That's when I house ruled that minimum movement would always be 1.
 
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Kevin Duke
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So are you saying Rally has to involve actual movement on the board?

I would think "self-rally" is pretty much still possible, even if someone couldn't move a millimeter.

I could see where, if a Soldier had a rally number of '1' that they couldn't self-rally if they were pinned (which cuts the stats 1/2) but would struggle to think limiting movement would limit self-rally.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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I have no issue with it as if the unit is pinned with a rally of 2 he can rally anyone with in his movement range even if his movement range is 0 he is still at 0 zero movement range from himself.

If his Rally is 1 he needs some encouragement to rally.
 
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Ubergeek
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Quote:
I would think "self-rally" is pretty much still possible, even if someone couldn't move a millimeter.


A good point I didn't consider. I'm not really concerned with the inability to rally others if movement goes to zero but it does make sense you can self rally. I'll reconsider my house rule for minimum movement in light of that unless someone official enacts a minimum movement exception.

In some scenarios you really need to watch out where your slow-pokes go as they could get bogged down to zero movement under the worst circumstances (usually in squares with a negative movement modifier or with my use of 3D terrain, in terrain like rubble with a negative movement modifier). My guys with only 3" movement (like Dreher) had the worst problem. Guys with 5" movement can at least retain 1-2 inches of movement when in a bind. Dreher's just a fatass that needs more excercise, though I like the hamper he imposes on any unit he's in as it makes you plan for his sluggishness.
 
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Jay Duval
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Walt Mulder wrote:
Quote:
I would think "self-rally" is pretty much still possible, even if someone couldn't move a millimeter.


A good point I didn't consider. I'm not really concerned with the inability to rally others if movement goes to zero but it does make sense you can self rally. I'll reconsider my house rule for minimum movement in light of that unless someone official enacts a minimum movement exception.

In some scenarios you really need to watch out where your slow-pokes go as they could get bogged down to zero movement under the worst circumstances (usually in squares with a negative movement modifier or with my use of 3D terrain, in terrain like rubble with a negative movement modifier). My guys with only 3" movement (like Dreher) had the worst problem. Guys with 5" movement can at least retain 1-2 inches of movement when in a bind. Dreher's just a fatass that needs more excercise, though I like the hamper he imposes on any unit he's in as it makes you plan for his sluggishness.


Dreher definitely needs his butt kicked to get him moving. If it wasn't for the MP40 he is carrying he would be a drag on the entire unit. You would think since he is carrying one of the lightest guns in the game he could move a little faster. If he wasn't in charge I think in most cases the German squad would leave him behind. Perhaps in the future there will be soldiers with negative rally scores.
 
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Ubergeek
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Well I checked the cards for my pinned guy and he had no Hide cards in his name, therefore couldn't self-rally and was stuck unable to move for the rest of the game. Nobody else was available to rally him. I can still live with that possibility even though it still sucks.
 
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Jay Duval
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Does he have any cards that say Rally players ? Or anyone else in his squad have any rally cards. This would allow him to rally himself. It sounds like there are some cases where a soldier could get pinned, break and just sit in the mud and not move. That is not actually that far fetched, I am sure in real life this situation happens more then people want to admit to.
 
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Andrew DiGregorio
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Walt Mulder wrote:
Another problem I see with the issue is it could affect rally ability as well. Rally is based on the unit movement distance. If it goes to zero, they can't even self rally. I have a real problem with that.

I had my guy pinned in a square where his movement was zero. He couldn't even self rally. That's when I house ruled that minimum movement would always be 1.


again, i cant find the thread from a while back, but it specifically centered around this exact issue, and the word from above was that yes, in some cases, a person would be unable to even self-rally.
 
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Brian
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Walt Mulder wrote:
I ran across a situation today playing the scenario Slogging through the Mud. The scenario drops movement by 1" off the bat. Then I had a weather event that came up that reduced movement by 2" for the rest of the turn. I had guys like Dreher with a movement of 3 unable to move at all. I also came across a situation with the reduced movement of one to begin with and then soldiers getting pinned. With a movement of 4", reduced to 3" by the scenario and then getting pinned cut their movement in half to 1.5 reduced to 1" (toward zero) and then being in a space with a -1 movement modifier not allowing them to move at all.
This is an interest observation, but one that doesn't warrant house ruling in my opinion. Seems like more of a warning. If you can't hide and can't move and are sighted in the open and no one can rally you, that does suck, but the more obvious solution is to plan better and avoid that situation to begin with. House ruling should be used when there is absolutely nothing that can be done about something that also causes the entire model to no longer make any sense.

I'm not trying to be a wise ass by saying that, and no offense intended here, but it makes absolutely perfect sense that any two or three combined modifiers like mud, difficult terrain, inclement weather, poor movement values, out of rallying range and/or being or becoming pinned would therefore cause someone to become immobilized, at least temporarily if not permanently.

In the case of mud being the scenario modifier, the easiest thing to do is avoid terrain that compounds the problem and if that is unavoidable for some reason (like orders) then at least send the highest movement value guys you have into the worst terrain and also keep some higher rallying value guys around to possibly help out, otherwise you naturally risk getting permanently stuck, especially with soldiers like Dreher that are gimping from previous battles, but that isn't at all the fault of the mud. It just means that if you allow Dreher to get mired in the tar pit, then they'll discover his body hundreds of years from now perfectly preserved and place him in the museum with a speculative backstory.

In the case of inclement weather, hide if possible and wait for it to blow over. Even if you can't hide, it only lasts the turn and should be a temporary problem not being able to move. If it catches you out in the open suddenly, spotted and immobile, I guess you'll have to do the best you can spotting or shooting for any more fortunate comrades nearby until they rally you and you may finally move away if you survive the close call unpinned after the weather changes again.

Anyway, remember that it doesn't just rain or get muddy for your guys. The other player is dealing with the same issues. Fight him for the high ground and seize control of what good terrain is available to move around in during muddy scenarios, dare him to try to flank you through the super muddy marshes in the rain if he doesn't prefer a straight fight and let him become the museum piece instead.

Generally, it sounds like you've really made some great observations about the possibility of becoming totally paralyzed when conditions are terrible. Learning from what happened and changing the decisions that allowed a bad situation to become worse is the answer, not house ruling something that automatically cancels out the conditions you observed which ultimately led you to an unacceptable position. There are way too many influential decisions that could have been made to reduce the risks of total immobility to justify some kind of minimum movement rules. Again, no offense, just saying no need to change the rules over this one.
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Ubergeek
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Quote:
Learning from what happened and changing the decisions that allowed a bad situation to become worse is the answer


I don't disagree. As the scenario played out I made my guy "Fields" stay put with no movement. When I finally checked his card stats I realized he'd never be able to self rally. That sucked but I lived with it. I certainly did learn a lot with regard to movement modifier awareness. I did reverse my house rule decision within a turn of that happening. Most of my HR's involve 3D terrain I'm using and not to the core rules as they stand. It did make me question whether there was a minimum movement however as I painfully experienced how movement can quickly go to zero.
 
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