Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Twilight Struggle» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mandatory action rounds, Shuttle Diplomacy, Nuclear Subs rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Leo S.
Chile
Valdivia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
After an exciting first game with my girlfriend (of about 6 hours in two-days) I have a lot of questions.

(Short unrelated story: As the US I was down in VP's all the game. At turn 9, being my only chance with defcon at 2 I amazingly survived "Terrorism"ing her "Wargames" (1 of 4 cards in hand).
Next I focused in Europe achieving control, until the penultimate action round where I had to let it go, avoiding to loose by unsatisfied military operations at phase E. I had -19 in the VP track. Finally I lost, but I really really love this game. She liked it a lot too, however judging it as "too long". )


After solving many of the newly arosen personal questions searching through the forums, I'm still dubious about some of them.

1. Is playing a card mandatory in each available Action Round? I guess it is for action rounds 1 to 7.
But, is it still mandatory for the 8th action when available via Space Race or via [81]"North Sea Oil"? I guess it isn't mandatory because of the word "may" in both of them.

2. [73]"Shuttle Diplomacy": "... subtract (-1) a Battleground country from the USSR total ... during the next scoring of the Middle East or Asia".
I guess you don't count it for the USSR as battleground-country for dominion nor as total countries for dominion, surely not for presence and not for control of USSR.
But how do you handle it for US control? Does US has control of the region if it controls all but one battleground country?

3. Under [98]"Aldrich Ames Remix" are new cards drawn with [77]"Ask Not What Your Country…" also revealed face-up?

4. [41]"Nuclear Subs".
I can't understand the second part of the event which says.
"This card’s Event does not apply to any Event that would affect the DEFCON level (ex. the “#40 – Cuban Missile Crisis” Event)."
First of all. Why would Nuclear Subs event apply to events that affect Defcon? "Nuclear Subs" event apply to "Coup Attempts in Battleground countries", not to Defcon changes! What am I missing?
Second. Why is "[40]Cuban Missile Crisis" mentioned here. Is "ex." in this context an EXample or an EXception?

5. [Just philosophizing]. How do you deal the cards when the deck is exhausting and both players have different hand sizes left? One for each one? Equalizing hand-size first?
This question has surely not an absolut answer, but I'm interested in knowing how you manage who receives more or less re-shuffled cards. (Do you (dis)like to refill your glass from the almost empty bottle?)

Thanks a lot in advance.

[Edited: only structure not content ]
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Conor Hickey
Ireland
Dublin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1. You must play a card if possible in ARs 1 to 7. Note you are never forced to play the China Card so you could hold that and decline to play a card. Generally speaking though, a 'blank' AR can be bad for your position. For Space Race and North Sea Oil, the 8th AR is optional.

2. This card has no direct effect on the US position - just subtract 1 battleground from the USSR, this may or may not change the overall position depending on the overall board situation. In your example, no, the US would not have Control as they would need the event to read 'add one battleground to the US total' - there are 6 Battlegrounds in both Middle East and Asia so this event usually only matters if there is a 3-3 split.

3. Not encountered that situation before, I would be inclined to think they are not revealed.

4. It means that the US cannot avoid losing to DEFCON if they were to play an event that lowers DEFCON to 1 - the easiest way to look at it is that the US may coup any Battleground they wish without lowering DEFCON, all other DEFCON altering events are as normal. Note that Nuclear Subs does not over-ride the DEFCON track i.e. if DEFCON is at 2 you still cannot coup battlegrounds in Europe, Asia or Middle East.

5. The usual method is you deal cards to the Soviet player first. If he started with more cards you deal alternately (starting with Soviet) until the Soviet reaches full hand size, then deal two (or more if necessary) cards consecutively to the US to reach his required hand size.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brandon M
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
“Games give you a chance to excel, and if you're playing in good company you don't even mind if you lose because you had the enjoyment of the company during the course of the game.” ― Gary Gygax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I will let others address the rules questions.

Regarding question 5: I always just start dealing, my opponent first. All "unequal" cards are dealt at the end. When we shuffle and start dealing again, I just pick up with the player that was supposed to get a card next.

Also, 6hrs is a tad long for TS, but not for a first game. I have 10+ games under my belt now, as does a friend of mine. We played a game together recently and were able to fit a 8 turn game into 2 hrs.

It takes familiarity earned through multiple plays to get there, but you and your girlfriend should see a big drop in the playtime after 2-4 more plays.

Enjoy!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ocean Druen
United States
Buffalo Grove
IL
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In response to question 3: The redraw happens and the Soviet player does not get to see the new hand (and obviously not reorder the cards). this rare situation should only come up during the headline phase as playing "Ask not..." resets the hand.

Short answer: No.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Riku Riekkinen
Finland
Jyväskylä
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
TwoShedsJackson wrote:
5. The usual method is you deal cards to the Soviet player first. If he started with more cards you deal alternately (starting with Soviet) until the Soviet reaches full hand size, then deal two (or more if necessary) cards consecutively to the US to reach his required hand size.


This is actually in the rules 11.1.3
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leo S.
Chile
Valdivia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks a lot for your answers.

TwoShedsJackson wrote:
4. It means that the US cannot avoid losing to DEFCON if they were to play an event that lowers DEFCON to 1
I still don't get it.blush Why should someone think he could avoid losing by lowering Defcon in another way? It says clearly: US Operations used for Coup Attempts in Battleground countries, for the remainder of this turn, do not degrade the DEFCON level.
Besides I suppose US free coups on battleground-countrys still lower DEFCON although "using the Operations value of the card"?

DarkTori wrote:
...and obviously not reorder the cards). this rare situation should only come up during the headline phase...
I guess you are thinking on the old text of the (deprecated) card. The text of [98]"Aldrich Ames Remix" doesn't reorder cards: "The US reveals their hand of cards, face-up, for the remainder of the turn and the USSR discards a card from the US hand".

Riku Riekkinen wrote:
This is actually in the rules 11.1.3
Ups...it was there all the time. Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Moore
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
mbmb
He means what he says about the cards that lower defcon. Nuke subs doesn't apply when these cards are played.

I also think what the card means is that the battlegrounds you coup may not be those limited by Defcon issues. If the defcon level allows you to coup in the middle east, for instance, then go ahead. If it is at two, then you may only coup in Africa, Asia, etc.

I guess I just repeated what 2-sheds said. Oh, well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DominiGeek
Dominican Republic
Santo Domingo
D.N.
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Alerce, for more info on AA Remix, Read this thread about the difference between "reveal" and "expose" the hand.
[thread=http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/8552328#8552328][/thread]

Espero sea de ayuda.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex
Canada
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Clarification for #4 : Nuclear Subs prevents DEFCON from being degraded ONLY when US makes coup in BattleGround Countries. Any other DEFCON degrading action has to be taken into account.

As for the 'Cuban Missile Crisis' (CMC) reference, it means the Nuclear Subs event does NOT override the automatic loss condition associated with the card; being any coup attempt made during the turn causes the player under CMC to lose the game.

Ex:
USSR headlined CMC (DEFCON goes down to 2) and US player goes with 'Nuclear Sub'.
On turn #1, US makes a coup attempt in Venezuela. DEFCON is left unchanged at 2 (as per 'Nuclear Sub' event) but US still loses to thermonuclear war because he made a coup while he was under CMC.

Edits : Typos
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bart de Groot
United Kingdom
Oxfordshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
afafard wrote:
Clarification for #4 : Nuclear Subs prevents DEFCON from being degraded ONLY when US makes coup in BattleGround Countries. Any other DEFCON degrading action has to be taken into account.

As for the 'Cuban Missile Crisis' (CMC) reference, it means the Nuclear Subs event does NOT override the automatic loss condition associated with the card; being any coup attempt made during the turn causes the player under CMC to lose the game.

Ex:
USSR headlined CMC (DEFCON goes down to 2) and US player goes with 'Nuclear Sub'.
On turn #1, US makes a coup attempt in Venezuela. DEFCON is left unchanged at 2 (as per 'Nuclear Sub' event) but US still loses to thermonuclear war because he made a coup while he was under CMC.


If the US player didn't 'forget' CMC is in effect, he could first remove 2 influence from W Germany or Turkey (cancel at any time) to prevent losing the game to Nuclear Subs.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Carroll
United States
Urbana
Illinois
flag msg tools
Soli Deo Gloria!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alerce wrote:
4. [41]"Nuclear Subs".
I can't understand the second part of the event which says.
"This card’s Event does not apply to any Event that would affect the DEFCON level (ex. the “#40 – Cuban Missile Crisis” Event)."
First of all. Why would Nuclear Subs event apply to events that affect Defcon? "Nuclear Subs" event apply to "Coup Attempts in Battleground countries", not to Defcon changes! What am I missing?
Second. Why is "[40]Cuban Missile Crisis" mentioned here. Is "ex." in this context an EXample or an EXception?


It means "example," and don't worry about it. There are rules lawyers who will try to argue that it ought to apply to event plays (using twisted logic). The card is just trying to shoot down that argument before it comes up. If no one's arguing about it, then don't worry.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.