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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Sinister Schemes - new preview rss

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Igor Pushkar
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And here we go with the OL review

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3240

Who were betting on friday?

As for my opinion, I love all the changes to OL actions and monsters.
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seb seb2
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i think everything is totally awesome.

also :
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Mark L
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So all Overlord cards are now "free" to play? Not sure how I feel about that... especially with a deck of only 15 cards, can't the Overlord do extremely quick cycling if he has access to some card draw? I didn't see any card draw spells, but it stands to reason that there'll be some. The spells they showed though do look pretty neat.

I do like how the spawning system works now, though. And the monsters, for that matter. Although the fact that I won't get to see any beastmen unless I have 1E and the conversion kit (I sold my 1E a while ago) is pretty sad.
 
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seb seb2
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markino wrote:
So all Overlord cards are now "free" to play? Not sure how I feel about that... especially with a deck of only 15 cards, can't the Overlord do extremely quick cycling if he has access to some card draw? I didn't see any card draw spells, but it stands to reason that there'll be some. The spells they showed though do look pretty neat.

I do like how the spawning system works now, though. And the monsters, for that matter. Although the fact that I won't get to see any beastmen unless I have 1E and the conversion kit (I sold my 1E a while ago) is pretty sad.


each overlord'card require condition to be played.
also he draw only one card/turn


Yeah the monsters are great.

Master Flesh Moulder is basically a healer for the monsters,nice
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Mark L
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Belsamoreth wrote:
markino wrote:
So all Overlord cards are now "free" to play? Not sure how I feel about that... especially with a deck of only 15 cards, can't the Overlord do extremely quick cycling if he has access to some card draw? I didn't see any card draw spells, but it stands to reason that there'll be some. The spells they showed though do look pretty neat.

I do like how the spawning system works now, though. And the monsters, for that matter. Although the fact that I won't get to see any beastmen unless I have 1E and the conversion kit (I sold my 1E a while ago) is pretty sad.


each overlord'card require condition to be played.
also he draw only one card/turn


Yes. It remains to be seen whether there'll be enough cards for him to get a super-focused deck. I'm worried if there's card draw available for the OL - that might make things too cheesy. Hopefully not.

I don't get what was so confusing about the Threat system that they had to change it. Treachery was a bit weird, fine, but the basic Threat system was easy enough to understand to me. It's a pity, as the other changes so far have IMO been good, and dumbing down the Overlord to some kind of AI-controllable persona... he isn't going to be as fun to play as before, it seems.
 
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Josiah Leis
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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markino wrote:


I don't get what was so confusing about the Threat system that they had to change it. Treachery was a bit weird, fine, but the basic Threat system was easy enough to understand to me.


Yeah I have no idea why they changed this, this has to be the thing I hate the most about 2nd Edition. DOOM had this same system and it was....boring. Play every card that comes into your hand does not exactly make for a wealth of tactical choices....
 
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Mark L
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Kartigan wrote:
markino wrote:


I don't get what was so confusing about the Threat system that they had to change it. Treachery was a bit weird, fine, but the basic Threat system was easy enough to understand to me.


Yeah I have no idea why they changed this, this has to be the thing I hate the most about 2nd Edition. DOOM had this same system and it was....boring. Play every card that comes into your hand does not exactly make for a wealth of tactical choices....


Indeed: and he's looking almost AI-esque now. Really a pity, as everything else so far has been positive in my book.
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Chris May
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This is looking great! I am so pumped up!
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Kaare D
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Soooo. I guess I might weigh in. No threat, no conquest. No guard, aim, dodge or rest. As near as I can tell no glyphs. No treasure chests. No spawning, instead there is now the "reinforcement" concept. Monsters now have traits. Heroes now have a class, and "ability scores". There is no more town, no more temporary death. The rules sound like they might make for an excellent dungeon crawler, but I don't see how it will have any resemblance whatsoever to Descent. If it's a completely new game, why not give it a new title, and market it as such? The first preview says, "Overall, the biggest challenge the design team faced was updating certain elements of the game while still staying true to the vision of the original." Again, this game sounds like it might be great, but it also sounds like it contains NO elements of Descent, to say nothing of "updated" elements, and it certainly ISN'T true to the vision of the original. Being a fan of the the original, not sure how I should feel about this. I don't see why they couldn't just give it a new name, and market it as something other then Descent, because so far, Descent is the one thing D2E isn't!
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Sphären Wanderer
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So the monster groups of beastmen and barghests have the same numbers?! While beastmen are weaker than goblins and barghests are better in every way? Man, FFGs balancing sucks. Nobody will use beastmen anymore.



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Sean D.
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I have been fairly skeptical about the new 2E, but the little goblin archer seems cool to me. Act I monsters? I wonder how many Act's there are in a Campaign? It seems like this is replacing the Bronze, Silver and Gold levels to me from Road to Legend.
 
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Josiah Leis
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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peterputer2 wrote:
Man, FFGs balancing sucks.


FFG has balancing? I thought that was just a myth, like their "editors".
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Scott Lewis
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Oktoberkid wrote:
Again, this game sounds like it might be great, but it also sounds like it contains NO elements of Descent, to say nothing of "updated" elements, and it certainly ISN'T true to the vision of the original.

This I strongly disagree with - it may not be true to the DETAILS of the original, but I feel that it *IS* true to the vision of the original - a tactical dungeon crawl with the ability for the OL and Heroes to tailor their strategies to their own tastes.

With only one card draw a turn, I still think the OL needs to wisely play the cards. I didn't mind the threat system, but I don't think it was removed because it was confusing, but rather because it was fiddly. Some people liked that fiddly-ness, and I did too. As an OL player myself, I don't feel like I'm being turned into an AI - but rather just focuses the choices on the maneuvering. One thing I like is that each monster gets two actions - which means they can still be very deadly for doing 2 attacks or 2 moves!

Instead, the cost of the cards is represented more in the campaign, rather than play cost. This game seems much more geared toward campaign play than 1E, and I like that.
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Josiah Leis
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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Hector131 wrote:
I have been fairly skeptical about the new 2E, but the little goblin archer seems cool to me. Act I monsters? I wonder how many Act's there are in a Campaign? It seems like this is replacing the Bronze, Silver and Gold levels to me from Road to Legend.


There are 2 Acts in the campaign as seen in a previous preview.
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seb seb2
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peterputer2 wrote:
So the monster groups of beastmen and barghests have the same numbers?! While beastmen are weaker than goblins and barghests are better in every way? Man, FFGs balancing sucks. Nobody will use beastmen anymore.


what are you talking about?

those are two differents monsters,how can you say on is better than other?
Beastmen have command and Ravage.Barghests don't.
Also they don't share the same traits.

 
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Scott Lewis
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peterputer2 wrote:
Nobody will use beastmen anymore.

This may be true in the Wilderness (unless the Barghests are one of the "non-open" things already), but in the Mountains, Barghests can't be chosen.
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Josiah Leis
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Oktoberkid wrote:
Again, this game sounds like it might be great, but it also sounds like it contains NO elements of Descent, to say nothing of "updated" elements, and it certainly ISN'T true to the vision of the original.

This I strongly disagree with - it may not be true to the DETAILS of the original, but I feel that it *IS* true to the vision of the original - a tacticaldungeon crawl with the ability for the OL and Heroes to tailor their strategies to their own tastes.


I highlighted what I felt was the key word in that sentence and I would add to that "Creating a plethora of key, interesting tactical choices for both sides."

I have yet to play the game and I hold out hope it will be great. But with each preview we can see that the amount and depth of tactical choices has been reduced. That is all part of the "streamlining". If you want a simpler game....you get a simpler game. I just hope it hasn't gone too far.
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Igor Pushkar
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Oktoberkid wrote:
Soooo. I guess I might weigh in. No threat, no conquest. No guard, aim, dodge or rest. As near as I can tell no glyphs. No treasure chests. No spawning, instead there is now the "reinforcement" concept. Monsters now have traits. Heroes now have a class, and "ability scores". There is no more town, no more temporary death. The rules sound like they might make for an excellent dungeon crawler, but I don't see how it will have any resemblance whatsoever to Descent. If it's a completely new game, why not give it a new title, and market it as such? The first preview says, "Overall, the biggest challenge the design team faced was updating certain elements of the game while still staying true to the vision of the original." Again, this game sounds like it might be great, but it also sounds like it contains NO elements of Descent, to say nothing of "updated" elements, and it certainly ISN'T true to the vision of the original. Being a fan of the the original, not sure how I should feel about this. I don't see why they couldn't just give it a new name, and market it as something other then Descent, because so far, Descent is the one thing D2E isn't!


Why they did not changed the name of the game? It is obvious for me. Nice marceting move to force players to buy Descent 1 edition that is still on sale to get rid of them and make more efficient profit. That's Convertion Kit is made for.

peterputer2 wrote:
So the monster groups of beastmen and barghests have the same numbers?! While beastmen are weaker than goblins and barghests are better in every way? Man, FFGs balancing sucks. Nobody will use beastmen anymore.





Beastman is weaker in HP, but as I can see Barghest cannot roll defence dices when attacked by adjacent hero, and Beastmen on the other hand has Command ability. Can't read what is Ravage, but I think that ablitiy comparable to Howl or better in some way.

Totally they are maybe not so balanced, but usable very good in different situations.
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seb seb2
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soddy wrote:

Beastman is weaker in HP, but as I can see Barghest cannot roll defence dices when attacked by adjacent hero,


na,i think the barghest can roll brown die when attacked by adjacent hero


Ravage means maybe the monster can attack again the same target after his first attack?
 
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Igor Pushkar
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Belsamoreth wrote:
soddy wrote:

Beastman is weaker in HP, but as I can see Barghest cannot roll defence dices when attacked by adjacent hero,


na,i think the barghest can roll brown dice when attacked by adjacent hero


Ravage means maybe the monster can attack again the same target after his first attack?


Yep, my bad, didn't read it carefuly. But I still don't think that 1 additional brown dice is good enough to compare to command ability...

Even Hell Hounds and Spiders in 1E are used by me and doing their job very well. It depends on what you want from them.

At least 1 HP is not so big difference to me, but ability to reroll 1 die (new command abitility) is great IMO.
 
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Daniel Drickman
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Game seems liek it would be fun for the heroes, but as someOne who always has to play the overlord my interest just went way down. Mayne a cooP variant might be good
 
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Scott Lewis
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Kartigan wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Oktoberkid wrote:
Again, this game sounds like it might be great, but it also sounds like it contains NO elements of Descent, to say nothing of "updated" elements, and it certainly ISN'T true to the vision of the original.

This I strongly disagree with - it may not be true to the DETAILS of the original, but I feel that it *IS* true to the vision of the original - a tactical dungeon crawl with the ability for the OL and Heroes to tailor their strategies to their own tastes.


I highlighted what I felt was the key word in that sentence and I would add to that "Creating a plethora of key, interesting tactical choices for both sides."

I have yet to play the game and I hold out hope it will be great. But with each preview we can see that the amount and depth of tactical choices has been reduced. That is all part of the "streamlining". If you want a simpler game....you get a simpler game. I just hope it hasn't gone too far.

Indeed, I think that has yet to be seen. I don't necessarily thing SOME reduction in choices will hurt the tactics - sometimes having richer choices can be just as good as more choices. I think the key will be "what can be done with those choices" - that will really be the tell on how deep the tactics can go, and I'm not sure the previews have quite demonstrated that quite yet.

Plus, and it could just be me, I don't mind sacrificing a little of the tactics if it means I can get it on the table more often; lately, games that take longer than a few hours don't see much playtime as I just haven't had large blocks of game time lately
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Andy Mills
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Plus, a normal beastman rolls blue/yellow while a normal barghest rolls blue/red. Red has (guessing) an expected roll of 2 damage and 1/3 surge, whereas yellow has an expected roll of 5/6 damage and 5/6 surge (and 5/6 range, that's likely irrelevant). So a beastman will enable the overlord to use surges far more frequently.

Not saying it's totally balanced (I have no idea what ravage does), but to say that "OMG number suck worse = beastmen is teh sux0r" is missing the point.
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DanKD wrote:
Game seems liek it would be fun for the heroes, but as someOne who always has to play the overlord my interest just went way down. Mayne a cooP variant might be good



Really ?
the game seems more fun for the Overlord than the v1 for me.
you have a lot more options now it seems.
Deck building,class selection,a lot more choice in the reinforcement,etc.
This is far far better than in the v1.



Also anyone notice this?



Cowardly : so there are some sort of lieutenants in the game
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Daniel Drickman
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I do love that the abilities are listed on the monster card.
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