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Panzer Grenadier: The East Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: A few questions from a newbie {likely to be added to} rss

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gary rembo
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Hi all,
Just need some clarification on a few rule queries from the experts.

1. Am i right in that opp fire targets single units whilst standard fire can {and in most cases will}attack a stack?.

2.If a stack takes say 3 step lossed they are evenly spread out over any applicable units so if you have three full squads they would each lose 1 step and you cannot eliminate a unit entirely if you have the option of sharing the pain?.

3.If a demoralised or disrupted unit takes a step loss do they retain there demoralised or disrupted status?.

4.If demoralised am i right in that this unit must spend its next activation trying to recover and if he fails flee,s straight away {ie directly after failing to recover this turn}.

5. when recovering you must roll 1 under your moral but for satndard moral rolls during the game you just need to roll the same or lower?.

6. The rules state that if a leader adds his moral bonuse to help a unit recover that he can take no other action?. Is this just moving or firing? in short is helping a recover an activation for the leader?.

7. when units recover they do so in stages ie demolaralised becomes disrupted and disrupted becomes good order. Conversly if they fail the roll do they degrade in steps also ie degraded becomes demoralised and demoralised becomes a step loss?.

Thank you in advance folks
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Dean Petters
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Those all sound right to me...

I think the leader, when aiding recovery, can help every unit in the hex and, if good order, the surrounding hexes. The leader can't aid recovery in one hex and then aid firing in an adjacent on the same turn... it's one or the other
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Peter Lloyd
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1. Yes, AT fire is the only non-op fire target specific attack. Everything else is at the hex.

2. No, you can choose who takes the step losses. The only time you are forced into specific units is the first step loss in assault combat, or the second step in bombardment.

3. Yes, correct, and then they would take an M2 morale check.

4. Not exactly. They would flee immediately upon failing the recovery check.

5. That applies to demoralized units. Disrupted units recover when the modified roll is equal to, or less than, their morale value.

6. Yes, he must activate, activate the units he helping to recover, and he may not move. So he could activate a pile of demoralized disrupted/demoralized units, and help them all, including in adjacent hexes (if he himself is good order).

7. Not necessarily. If a unit fails a morale check by more than 3, it is immediately demoralized.

Check out PG-HQ's Annotated 3rd Edition Rules, it should be quite helpful.
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gary rembo
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Hi,
Thank you folks.
I am wrapping my head around the game slowly.
There appears to be lots of little details to remember.
I think i will check out the rules you mention.
I am finding the 3rd edition rules quite confusing with many things referenced more than once in different areas.
The basics seem straight forward enough.
I have been playing sort of skirmishes sort of thre stacks each to get a feel of playing although i suspect i will be losing a great deal of the games appeal doing this?.
Seems hard to gain any ground in this game if im playing right.
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Peter Lloyd
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Once you get used to it, it flows quite well. To get practice against a real player, you might consider a VoIP game. There is player matching tool on PG-HQ.
 
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gary rembo
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Getting to grips a little now.
I made some counters to indicate decapitad leaders etc. so here goes a few more.
Firstly on the third point in my first post where does the m2 roll come from?.

the rules on lone leaders are a bit sketchy. What happens if a leader of one side is the only remaining unit after an assault do you make a displace roll straight away.

Also the rules state if you move units into a lone enemy leader you displace them so does this mean if you move 3 hexes you can in theory roll to discplacement on the leader 3 times? {ie move one hex roll to displace,move one hex roll for displace, rinse repeat}. Or is it only if you finish your move in the leaders hex.

Is it right that morale rolls can worsen your condition but missing a recovery roll only means you dont recover but will flee if you are demoralised and fail the roll?.

I presume that the town and trench +1 modifiers are for recovery rolls only not for moral rolls?.

Once again thank you in advance im beginning to get the game a little.
 
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Peter Lloyd
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M2 rolls come from the CRTs or in hex where step losses are taken, survivors take an M2 check. AFVs are a separate case when losses are taken from fire.

If a leader is remains alone in an assault hex, with enemy units, and he has otherwise passed his survival check, you would immediately roll for displacement.

You could chase lone leaders all over the map, assuming he survives the displacement roll each time. (Good luck! :what

You are correct about recovery. Your condition does not worsen when failing a recovery roll, unless you fail when being "assisted" by a kommissar.

Yes, the town & trench modifiers are only for recovery.
 
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gary rembo
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so all the surviving units including any that take the step losses take an m2 check?.
sorry i assumed that since the wording is "all OTHER survivors take an m2 check" that the one/ones that take step losses do not have to take an m2 check.
 
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Peter Lloyd
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Yes, that's right. The only exception is close-top AVFs. They take M checks on an X result, or the surviving step takes an M2 after an AT fire step loss.
 
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gary rembo
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HI,
found another question.
opp fire targets single counters correct?.
so can opp fire be used to target a leader/kommisar?
 
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Peter Lloyd
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Yes.

... and mostly yes. Leaders & Komms may travel with a (non-AFV, non-transport) unit. When they do, they may not be individually targeted. When moving alone, yes. As I understand it, they may not move together, but more than one may move with with a unit.
 
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Russ Williams
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A question about Peter's answers:

Quote:
5. That applies to demoralized units. Disrupted units recover when the modified roll is equal to, or less than, their morale value.

But 14.41 says: "On a result LESS THAN the modified unit morale, it recovers." No distinction between disrupted and demoralized units.

(Since this thread is from early 2012, I wonder if the rules changed in the intervening time or something...?)
 
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Drew Heath
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Rules haven't changed. Peter mentally conflated morale checks due to incoming fire (equal or less to pass) with morale recovery (less to pass) and none of us noticed.
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