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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game – The Redhorn Gate» Forums » Rules

Subject: Fell Voices - card order rss

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John Iron
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The "Fell Voices" encounter card reads: "When Revealed: Return the top 2 Snow cards in the encounter discard pile to the top of the encounter deck. If this effect returned less than 2 Snow treachery cards, Fell Voices gains surge."

My question is whether you can put back the two Snow cards on the top of the encounter deck in the order you want OR you determine the order randomly OR the order they were in the discard pile?

In our game tonight answer for question above would have made the difference between winning / losing the game.
 
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Patrick Brennan
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First player chooses. You win
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John Iron
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PBrennan wrote:
First player chooses. You win :D


Thanks for the quick reply.

Just curious how do you know that the active player chooses. Was there a similar encounter card in the past where this question already has come up?
 
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Patrick Brennan
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Not really, but "Return the top 2 Snow cards in the encounter discard pile to the top of the encounter deck" is atomic and doesn't specify order. In the FAQ, there's a bit on simultaneous effect timing (ie if 2 or more effects would occur simultaneously, the first player decides the order in which the effects happened). So the answer was extrapolated from that.
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Pawel Gutowski
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Why do you think this is atomic? Card does not say take 1 card and then take another. It tell you to take 2 at once. For me, player can't determine the order.
 
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Patrick Brennan
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guciomir wrote:
Why do you think this is atomic? Card does not say take 1 card and then take another. It tell you to take 2 at once.


Uhm, yes, I agree. If you took 1 card at a time then it might imply you put them on top in that same order. But it doesn't ... it just says return the top 2. Where there's lack of specificity (ie here, re order), I believe first player should get to choose.
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John Steinbach
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Yeah, it almost necessarily works as Patrick has outlined.

Both cards are moved to the top of the deck simultaneously. Fell Voices also gives no indication that they should be arranged in a particular order. Sure, you can say that a player should just grab the top two Snow cards, flip them over, and place them on top of the encounter deck. On the other hand, that does reverse the order they were in as discarded cards. So should I take the SECOND card and place it FIRST, to maintain the discard order?

There's absolutely no way to tell. Between the simultaneous placement and the fact that virtually all instances of ambiguity in this game are adjudicated by the first player, I think Patrick's interpretation is the correct one.

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