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Subject: Should I buy World in Flames? rss

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The local game shop has WiF 4th edition (though apparently with some 5th edition countersheets?) for $40 with the airplanes expansion. Is it a game worth getting? How many players is optimum and how much time is involved?
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M@tthijs
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
It's one of the greatest monstergames, I think. For that price I would certainly pick it up.
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Martin Gallo
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
I am not so sure. I have played 5th edition and was left wanting. Tonight will see Germany declare war on Poland in a Final Edition game to determine the fate of my copy. There are a lot of interesting ideas in the game, but as a game it seems like quite a mess. I think there are better games on the topic but if you really enjoy it then buy it (with the understanding that you are buying an edition that has been surpassed, with many changes to improve game play).

If you can, I recommend playing the game first (with people who not only know how to play but are willing to teach) before buying it. It is a serious time commitment.
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Robert Wesley
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Re: Should I A-L-L but World in Flames?
Yes, you should A-L-L but World in Flames! surprise
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Aaron Silverman
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
Looking at the classic wargames that you've rated highly, I think that would be a good $40 investment for you. Teams of 2 players each are probably ideal, but just doing ETO or PTO instead of the whole thing should be manageable 1-on-1 or solo.

I played 4th edition years ago (with its straightforward rules and no expansions) and loved it. More recent editions I've only looked at, and they appear to be far more involved.
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Warren Bruhn
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
From an adjacent table where I'm playing The Devil's Caldron, I'm occassionally watching and kibitzing on a WiF Final Edition using Planes in Flames, Ships in Flames, Cruisers in Flames, Factories in Flames, etc., etc. and it looks crazy. Seven players started the game, but that dropped to six as one of the two Commonwealth players got a weekend job. It took some weeks of discussion via email and in person for the group to decide the rules they would use. Each session of about seven hours seems to include an hour of rules discussions, or sometimes an hour and a half. The numerous rules revisions and erata and expansions and options have caused a lot of confusion. Note that most of this group has been playing WiF in its various forms for a quarter of a century, so perhaps that adds to the confusion.

Each session seems to include at least half the time spent on naval and air battles, which are quite involved relative to the land combat. Of course, that is because of all the added bells and whistles in Planes in Flames and Ships in Flames. This can turn the Russian player into a spectator for much of the session, as he isn't in on all the exciting and convoluted naval drama. These guys play about twice a month, and they are taking several months or more than a year to play out the full campaign.

On the plus side, this is a highly social game. The group I'm watching is so involved in the game that they can hardly take any time to even answer questions about it. Although the Japanese player puts out a propaganda blurb with photos, none of them posts sessions reports on this campaign to BGG or elsewhere. I've tried to describe the action to WiF Wendell in some private messages, but I don't really understand the game. So I can't post sessions reports for these guys.

The game seems to be extremely addictive, much like Empires in Arms (another old ADG product). So, in spite of the massive amount of time needed to play, and in spite of the massive amount of work needed to master the rules, the game appeares to pay off with huge endorphine release. I'd suggest reading WiF Wendell's and other players' session reports and reviews here on BGG on the WiF page before deciding to spend the money and time.
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michael connor
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
Your marriage(or relationship) will go up in flames if you get too involved in that. It's a whole world of it's own.
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James Lowry
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
Peso Pete wrote:
Gideon, you know there is a new game club forming in Oceanside that will be playing wargames on Saturdays, right?

Stop that!

(I used to live in Fallbrook.)

(Thinks to self: I already have a group... I already have a group....)
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Testy Testerson
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
Is anyone else nervous about where the hell Wendell is? This discussion is pretty much tailor made for him
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Paolo D'Ulisse
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
I think the 5th edition is the best one... The Final Edition is (for my taste) too complicated and there are too many things inside...
If the 4th edition is as good as the 5th take it! cool
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Bob Schindler
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?

Life is to short already.

How deep is your wallet.


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Bruce Jurin
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Re: Should I but World in Flames?
Neopeius wrote:
The local game shop has WiF 4th edition (though apparently with some 5th edition countersheets?) for $40 with the airplanes expansion. Is it a game worth getting? How many players is optimum and how much time is involved?


Gideon,

A a lifetime World in Flames addict, I'd advise you not to buy the fourth edition unless you are cash strapped. The reason I say this is that the current version (WIFFE) is much better supported by the Wiffe community, has been played and tested far more, and simply has more to offer. t also has many useable expansions if you want to play it more.

Of course, a full WIFFE game is a lot more expensive - but if you are going to play a game like this a few times, and spend well over 100 hours or even a few hundred hours, the time commitment may be a bigger 'cost' than the money.

So I'm advising to go with WIFFE, maybe spend a little more but try the best the game has to offer.

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Wendell
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Breunor wrote:
A a lifetime World in Flames addict, I'd advise you not to buy the fourth edition unless you are cash strapped.


Agree with Bruce...
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Eric Walters
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To me, what matters most is that you have opponents in your local area who are already playing it or want to play. That's the most important consideration for buying the game compared to some of the other really excellent efforts available. If you are going to invest your time so heavily into one game/game system, I'd say that is a must.

There's no doubt that the game itself is quite engrossing, as evidenced by the fanatic following it still maintains. I don't think any other strategic WWII game has quite such a devoted fan base as this one.
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Jon M
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This session report really put me off the game.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/790450/flames-across-atlanti...

This bit in particular:

Quote:
With the clear weather, Raeder plan to use the largest sub force in the world to hit the Allied convoy net around the world.

Axis commanders are stunned to find that the plan is approved and the world see 250 elite GGR subs enter the high sea to search for the allied convoy net.

In an unbelievable display of skill, the GGR sub find and sink 1.200.000 tons of shipping and even send Indianapolis to the wet grave and save a Japanese sub the trouble and some other ship will have to sail huge bombs to the pacific…

In the East coast, a lone elite sub almost clears the entire convoy line, sinking 400.000 tons and forcing 400.000 tons to flee. As another elite sub, sink all allied convoys in CSV, the CW convoy net is broken beyond repair.


Bearing in mind that this is 1944 post D-Day. It seems massive, complex and detailed without being any more historical than many other shorter more abstract games on the subject.
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Paolo D'Ulisse
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I insist 5th edition is better... whistle
 
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Tom Willcockson
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Jon_1066 wrote:
This session report really put me off the game.


Yea this sort of thing and the godawful maps & mediocre counters pretty much make WiF a non-starter for me. Until the grail strategic WWII game comes along that is both playable and historically accurate the closest one to it so far to me is aWaW (that is if you play without the sometimes ridiculous research rules).
 
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Roger Sjögren
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No.
 
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Jeremy Fridy
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I REALLY liked Totaler Krieg, but I haven't tried the new edition.

WiF looks playable if you don't use all the expansions. But no one around me will teach it that way, so I stick to other games. If you can find an opponent, go for it, just start simple. Honestly it seemed to me all the expansions added so much detail the game started losing focus.
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Wendell
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Freitag wrote:
I REALLY liked Totaler Krieg, but I haven't tried the new edition.

WiF looks playable if you don't use all the expansions. But no one around me will teach it that way, so I stick to other games. If you can find an opponent, go for it, just start simple. Honestly it seemed to me all the expansions added so much detail the game started losing focus.


I like many of the expansions - but WIF is absolutely fine without any of the expansions!
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Hugo Olsson
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WIF 4th ed is a much cleaner system than the later editions. The rules booklet is about 20 pages, with almost no exceptions or special cases.
5th ed counters look better, too.

Hmm, what was the name of that games store?
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Edmond
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I bought at first 4th edition but upgraded it with new counters and rules (available online) to 5th edition.
Map changes are very minor (few new cities and offmap boxes) and I can list them.

Now considered a classic on WWII...
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D T P
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I am also a lifetime Wif player. Started with the 1st Edition in 85.
I agree with Bruce first then Wendell twice after. Buy the Final Edition. But....

This isn't just a question about how much money or what edition. It's about a commitment to time and space. Do you have an empty room to set it up? Do you have a 4' by 8' table? Is your mate or partner or cat going to be a problem with your endless hours away at war?

And what about friends? How many do you know that will make this commitment with you?....

World in Flames isn't just a game, it's a career choice.

Oh... and I recently bought an unpunched copy of the Final Edition off eBay for under $50 including shipping. It seems to sell there pretty regular.
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Warren Bruhn
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I actually was supposed to play Italy in the WiF:FE+++ game that I described above. We had the space and people, and I had the time to commit. What killed it for me was the rules. I tried to read the rules, but felt like I was trying to stick my head through a wall. Personally, my day job involves a lot of rules reading and memorization, and on top of that I've been reading a substantial number of new cardboard and miniatures wargame rules over the last three years or so. The end result was that I just couldn't handle the huge, complex, and poorly organized WiF:FE+++ rules that the group was going to be using.

When there is a WiF:FE+++ pre-school edition, I might give it another try.

Must say the the Ships in Flames/Cruisers in Flames/Planes in Flames system looks quite facinating. It's vastly more complicated than War at Sea/Victory in the Pacific. But I wonder if the land game is still there in WiF:FE+++ just to provide some context for all the facinating air and naval combat.
 
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Eric Schultz
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This confuses me. Large multi color maps are godawful? Have you not seen the FE maps? I agree up to 5th edition they were not much to brag about. And the counters? Mediocre? They are some of the most colorful out there, all with good die cut and with historical full color aircraft pictures and model names and full color ship portfolios? I also enjoy Third Reich but I can't see how those generic counters and its three color map make it better?

Eric
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