Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Stone Age: The Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: New Trading Questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Will
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We ran into a really awkward situation with trading in a game yesterday:

My trade marker was up to 5 (1:1) and I had 1 decoration, 1 wood, 1 stone, and 1 gold and the card that can provide 2 resources of any types. I had a person on the “5 resources of 4 different types” hut.

When I went to buy the hut I wanted to trade 1 decoration for 1 gold followed by using my card to get 1 brick and 1 gold. I would then buy the hut using 1 wood, 1 brick, 1 stone, and 2 gold, leaving me with 1 gold.

There was a debate as to whether I would have to use the card first for 2 resources which caused another question to come up. It has been made clear that you can “upgrade” to get more points even if you have the resources to purchase one of the huts like I described above or a “1-7” hut. So let’s say that I traded in my card for a brick and a stone. Would I then be able to trade in my decoration for a gold and pay for the hut with 1w, 1b, 1s, and 2g or would I have to pay with the 1w, 1b, 2s, and 1g I already had?
So I guess the questions really come down to:
1) When you use the trader can you also use a resource card at the same time to purchase a hut?
2) Can you trade a decoration into a resource in order to buy one of the “X different resources” huts even if you already have a different way to pay for it?

For the “5 resources of 4 different types” hut, I think if you have 2w, 2b, 2s, and 2g you would not be able to trade a decoration into something else to buy the hut, that seems clear.
In the same situation if you have 2w, 2b, 2s, and 1g I think you would be able to trade a decoration into a gold to pay for the hut.

If anyone has some insight into these situations it would be helpful. I have read a lot of the examples that have been clarified and these new situations seem to keep popping up with the trader.
Thanks.

The following is the rules that my group uses for some strange situations that come up and stuff not clear in the rules:

A player always receives 2 decorations when moving on the trader track regardless of whether they are moving from the trader space, the +1 trader card, or from a die table card or hut. (I honestly think it should be equal to the number of spaces you move on the track, but no big deal.)

A player may only trade once per turn and only trade to acquire a card or a hut. You may not trade 1:2 and use the resources gained to purchase 2 different huts. (Example: A player has 1 gold and a person on the “1 wood” hut and a person on the 1 resource card and his trade marker is up to 9 (1:2). The player may trade the 1 gold for 2 wood and acquire the hut, however, they may not keep the second resource as the player did not use it when making the purchase. They will only be able to purchase the card or the hut this turn.)

When purchasing one of the “X different resources” huts, a player may “upgrade” from one resource to another even if they already have enough to pay for that hut in a different way. (Example: A player has 2 wood, 1 brick, 1 stone and 1 gold and a person on the “5 resources of 4 types” hut and his trade marker is up to 5 (1:1). The player may trade the 1 wood in for 1 gold and then pay for the hut in order to receive 3 additional points for purchasing the hut. This works similarly for the “1-7 resources” huts. Example 2: A player has 3 wood and 1 stone and a person on the “2 wood, 1 stone” hut and his trade marker is up to 5 (1:1). That player may not trade 1 of his wood to get 1 stone and then pay for his hut with this new stone. The player already had enough of the resources that were called for to purchase this hut.)

Sorry for the really long post. The trader just creates all these situations that the rules don't address.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thornsen
United States
Nottingham
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My understanding of the rule, at least for huts, is that you are only allowed to trade if you had no other way to pay for the hut with the desired resources. For example, the 5/4 hut. Even if you have 2 wood, 1 brick, 1 stone, and 1 gold, you can declare that you are building the hut with 2 gold and trade to acquire that gold. You aren't forced into building it with 2 wood just because those are the resources you currently hold.

However, I'm not sure what the official answer is to your original question. I would say that you can't trade in that particular case. You have to "spend" the 2-free-resources card to collect the 1 brick and 1 gold, but then you no longer needed to trade in order to pay the desired 1w/1b/1s/2g. But I would say that you could trade in order to build the hut as 1b/1b/2s/1g and keep the extra gold if you wanted.

I think the rule is kind of silly honestly. It makes actually having gold a bad thing, since it prevents you from trading for it. I would rather the rule be that you can trade for anything you want, as long as you immediately spend whatever you just traded for. Because under "proper" play, that is the net effect of the trader anyway (since players will avoid having any stone or gold in order to be "allowed" to trade for it).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berry
United States
Denver
CO - Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would say using the card which grants you two resource of your choice now or later is a separate event from building the hut. Once you used the card to gain the two gold you no longer needed to visit the trader to build the hut as desired, thus you could not have visited the trader. As you can only visit the trader when you cannot buy a card or hut another way, If you had only 3w 3b 4s 1g would could visit the trader to get another gold. If you had 1w 1b 1s 2g and you wanted to build the hut with two gold you could not visit the trader as you already had the resources on hand. and yes the trader track makes gathering gold alot less important.

The question that needs answer is not the limitations of the trader track, but is using a that 2 resources of your choice card an event in and of itself. I say it is.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
the difference between a "crowd" and a "mob" is one push
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I do not see anything in the rules that requires a timing metric.

For instance: I have 1 gold, 1 stone, 1 brick, 1 wood and 1 decoration. The 18 point hut (1 of each resource) holds my meeple. There is nothing in the rules preventing me from trading the decoration for a gold, as I do need it to build the hut, and so I can and keep my initial gold for future use (I am using the gold I received in trade for the hut).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Gorman
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
mb
True there isn't a timing metric; but the rule states The player may ...
"...only trade if needed to acquire a civilization card or building tile"

If you have 1 gold, 1 stone, 1 brick, 1 wood, and 1 decoration, you have the recourses you need to acquire the 18 point hut; so, you cannot visit the trader. You'll end up with 1 decoration.

G
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ggorman6 wrote:
If you have 1 gold, 1 stone, 1 brick, 1 wood, and 1 decoration, you have the recourses you need to acquire the 18 point hut; so, you cannot visit the trader.


Yup, definitely so.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Meelis Looveer
Estonia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
But f.e. if I have 2 woods, 2 stones and 1 gold and I want to buy building tile with 4 resources - 2 different resources.
May I trade wood(s) for gold to earn more points for that hut?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
melx wrote:
But f.e. if I have 2 woods, 2 stones and 1 gold and I want to buy building tile with 4 resources - 2 different resources.
May I trade wood(s) for gold to earn more points for that hut?


The only rule is that you can't have previously held before the trade what you ultimately purchased the hut with.

If you purchase the hut with 2 gold and 2 stone, did you have that before you traded? No. So it's allowed.

If you traded for gold, then bought the tile with 1 gold, 2 stone and 1 wood, that would be illegal, since you had 1 gold, 2 stone and 1 wood before the trade.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know from where people are getting the idea that you may trade to build a hut with "desired" resources, when the rules say "the player may only trade if needed to acquire a civilization card or building tile" (emphasis mine).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GSReis wrote:
I don't know from where people are getting the idea that you may trade to build a hut with "desired" resources, when the rules say "the player may only trade if needed to acquire a civilization card or building tile" (emphasis mine).


These aren't contradictory. The trade must be needed to perform the *desired* move.

The publishers have said it's perfectly fine to trade wood for gold to buy a hut, even when you already have enough wood to buy it. The expansion doesn't force you to earn less points.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
These aren't contradictory. The trade must be needed to perform the *desired* move.

No contradiction, indeed, but that is not what is written in the rules.

Quote:
The publishers have said it's perfectly fine to trade wood for gold to buy a hut, even when you already have enough wood to buy it.

Which publisher? After the blunder with the scoring of green cards, I wouldn't trust Rio Grande on this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The real publishers, HiG. It's in several of the other threads on this.



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
You can't handle the truth?
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GSReis wrote:
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
These aren't contradictory. The trade must be needed to perform the *desired* move.

No contradiction, indeed, but that is not what is written in the rules.

Quote:
The publishers have said it's perfectly fine to trade wood for gold to buy a hut, even when you already have enough wood to buy it.

Which publisher? After the blunder with the scoring of green cards, I wouldn't trust Rio Grande on this.

Actually, the blunder is a useless example, that doesn't clearly show what it tries.

As for Rio Grande fixing this ambiguity, with the best solution, that is just a matter of taste, not a blunder.

But of course, that is a matter for another thread. I just can't let this clearly wrong post go unanswered. I know, I know... it's the internet and people are wrong all the time.

This is my "1 thing".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
crambaza wrote:
As for Rio Grande fixing this ambiguity, with the best solution, that is just a matter of taste, not a blunder.

The blunder was that their "fixing" contradicted the official ruling from Hans im Glück. How is that "just a matter of taste"?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
katie ludlum
United States
san jose
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
We played "Style Is The Goal" expansion for the first time on 4th of July & ran into some trading problems because of ambiguous rules. Since it's my game I decided I'll use the following from now on, at least until the game maker comes out with the clarification on trading ...

Either (A) or (B) will be applied, depending on the consensus:

(A) Trading is allowed only if you don't already have what you want to use in a single purchase, & the excess from the trade goes back in the general supply.
(B) Trading is not allowed as long as you can AFFORD a buy regardless.

Of course, a player can use the order of the actions to help the situation.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kll3180 wrote:
at least until the game maker comes out with the clarification on trading ...


As mentioned above, the game maker Hans im Gluck has already clarified. You can make any trade you want, as long as you what you end up spending is different than what you started with. That's your A).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
katie ludlum
United States
san jose
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I didn't find anything helpful outside this forum. Rio Grande sent me the links to here when I wrote to them recently regarding trading rules. The video with the cute boardgamegeek girl & the young European gamer who was trying to explain "Style Is The Goal" didn't help me at all. It was difficult to follow the ever slow, awkward demonstration.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Garrett Potvin
United States
Brooklyn Park
MN
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So to be clear:

(1) You can only make one trade per round.

(2) You can acquire any resources you want, it does not matter if you can already acquire the card/building.

(3) You must use what you trade for to make the purchase (one purchase).

(4) Any excess resources from the trade go back to the resource pool.





 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
You can't handle the truth?
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drewcooter wrote:
So to be clear:

(1) You can only make one trade per round.

(2) You can acquire any resources you want, it does not matter if you can already acquire the card/building.

(3) You must use what you trade for to make the purchase (one purchase).

(4) Any excess resources from the trade go back to the resource pool.

I think your number 2 needs some rewording.

You cannot trade for resources you already have to purchase a building using traded resources, and keeping the resources you already had.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian Heckmann
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland Pfalz
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So I have a question towards this problem concerning 1:2-trading. Let's say you want to build a hut and need one wood and two stones, but only have one wood and one stone, so you trade one decoration for two stones... Are you allowed to pay the two stones you got out of the trade and the one wood you already had, keeping the stone you had beforehand trading, or do you have to pay your "old" stone, the new one, the wood and give the excess-stone back to the bank?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.