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Subject: A few questions before my first game. rss

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Mark Johnson
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Later today I'm going to be reading the rules and playing this game for the first time. As I haven't read the rules or scoured the rules forums, is there anything I should know about (ie errata and/or misprints) before playing/reading the rules? I have heard that the difficulty is scaled by the particular villain and particular environment therefore, I'd like a recommendation of what villain and environment to use for a 2 player game. I think I would prefer just using 1 heroe each rather than 2 as some people have mentioned doing for two people. I don't really want recommendations on what heroes to use as I think it would be more fun to pick ones that seem interesting regardless of how powerful they are. So, since it's our first game and I don't know what heroes we're going to pick, you could assume that we will pick the worst ones when deciding what villain and environment to recommend for a winnable challenge.

Thanks in advance
 
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James
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I think you'll find that most here would recommend that you choose the villain Baron Blade and the environment Megalopolis. It will be tough with only two heroes, though.

Candidly, it will also be tough if you choose the wrong heroes; some work well in the context of a team but not so much holding their own in dealing damage. I'll keep my mouth closed, though!

I think if/when you get comfortable playing with four heroes total you'll find the current edition of the base game best balanced.

Have fun!
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JT Call
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I'm playing my first game tonight, so I doubt I can be all that much help. That being said, I have been doing a lot of reading on the forums. If you're going to try and play with two people using only two heroes, it sounds like you'll want to play against Baron Blade using the Megalopolis deck. Anything else would be far too overwhelming for people playing for the first time (if not impossible).

The game is typically geared for teams of 3-4, so if you only have two heroes it seems that BB in Megalopolis is the easiest setting (and even then, with the wrong set of heroes, you'll very likely die).

Have fun!! laugh
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Roberta Yang
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If you really want to try it with just two heroes, definitely have (non-Advanced) Baron Blade as your villain and Megapolis as your environment. Just be warned that the game is not designed to handle teams of only two heroes and that even this, the weakest opposition in the entire game, is still challenging for experienced players. You really should reconsider using a variant that will make the game a lot harder on your first play.

There's a fair amount of errata online, but nothing too critical. The only big thing that I can think of that could be important is that the Visionary's "Wrest the Mind" card can't be played on heroes or the villain character card - so no mind-controlling Blade into killing himself.
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Yoki Erdtman
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The first thing to point out about the rules is they can easily be mastered by watching one of the many video reviews. The second thing is that they are unfortunately printed in all caps and comic sans, with hero/villain bios interspersed throughout the rules, making it both hard to read and reference. Luckily it has a great glossary at the back of the rules, keep this handy while playing, and the back of the rules serve as a turn order summary.

The "Conflict Resolution" rules are a good thing to read, as they cover what to do when you run into odd situations. It can be summed up as players', but generally going with the worst thing for the heroes tends to be the way to go.

Here's the Errata Mark, and I think the following excerpt from my game comment may be helpful as well.

Number of Active Heroes vs Villain Difficulty Level:
This is a quick reference villain difficulty chart. Check the number of players in the top row, and look down that column for what villain and on which Difficulty Level (Normal or Advanced) will be a good challenge.

Remember though, that some Environments are tougher than others, and help boost certain villains. Plague Rat is helped immensely by the Chemical Factory, while The Matriarch, and The Chairman and The Operative belong in Rook City.

Lastly, how good you know the heroes, and which heroes you pick on your team, has a huge impact on the challenge level.

All that said, this is a good starting point.

2 3 4 5 Villain
--------------------------------------

- - A N Spite
N A - - Baron Blade
* N A - Omnitron
- N A - Plague Rat
* N A - Grand Admiral Voss
* * N A Citizen Dawn
- - N A The Matriarch
- - N A The Chairman and the Operative

Legend:
N = Normal Difficulty
A = Advanced Difficulty
- = Waste of time, you'll walk all over the villain.
* = You will require the assistance of some incapacitated heroes.


The ratings for Plague Rat, The Matriarch, and The Chairman and The Operative are preliminary, as I need more games to evaluate them. The two latter villains might even be able to stand up to a 6-hero team.
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JT Call
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Yokiboy wrote:


2 3 4 5 Villain
--------------------------------------

- - A N Spite
N A - - Baron Blade
* N A - Omnitron
- N A - Plague Rat
* N A - Grand Admiral Voss
* * N A Citizen Dawn
- - N A The Matriarch
- - N A The Chairman and the Operative

Legend:
N = Normal Difficulty
A = Advanced Difficulty
- = Waste of time, you'll walk all over the villain.
* = You will require the assistance of some incapacitated heroes.


The ratings for Plague Rat, The Matriarch, and The Chairman and The Operative are preliminary, as I need more games to evaluate them. The two latter villains might even be able to stand up to a 6-hero team.


It looks like the N and A difficulty for Spite are swapped.

I'd be curious to hear how other players do with six heroes against the Rook City villains on advanced difficulty (whether it's still challenging). I'm especially interested in watching this list grow once we throw in the Infernal Relics villains. devil
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Yoki Erdtman
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talusproteus wrote:
It looks like the N and A difficulty for Spite are swapped.

No, Spite is actually easier to defeat with fewer rather than more heroes. See more on this topic in the thread, Is Spite Neutered vs The Wraith? (may contain strategy Spoilers) . The various Rook City villains' difficulty levels are also discussed in this thread, Relative difficulty of Rook City Villains. Here's the original thread from which I've developed my own chart, Villain Difficulty Levels.

talusproteus wrote:
I'd be curious to hear how other players do with six heroes against the Rook City villains on advanced difficulty (whether it's still challenging). I'm especially interested in watching this list grow once we throw in the Infernal Relics villains. devil

If you have yet to crack a given villain, that is, figured out the puzzle on how best to beat them, then you could definitely give it a go with six heroes against The Chairman and the Operative, The Matriarch, or even Citizen Dawn, especially on the Advanced difficulty.
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Roberta Yang
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Yokiboy wrote:
No, Spite is actually easier to defeat with fewer rather than more heroes. See more on this topic in the thread, Is Spite Neutered vs The Wraith? (may contain strategy Spoilers) .

It looks to me like the reason Spite became so easy was that you went to an illegally low number of heroes so all of his powers turned off. Of course a villain is going to be really easy when you face them with only one hero and they always deal H-1 or H-2 damage. Comparing how he plays with three heroes and how he plays with five is interesting; comparing how he plays with three with how he plays with one is utterly meaningless when the H mechanic clearly doesn't allow single-hero games.

I've played Spite with three heroes and with five, and he was a walk in the park both times. I think he was actually easier with five than with three, though - in part because we had Mr. Fixit able to play Grease Gun every turn thanks to the permanent-bouncing drug.

EDIT: It helps that you had the Wraith in play and Stun Bolt murders pretty much any villain that doesn't have minions.
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Yoki Erdtman
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salty53 wrote:
...illegally...



The game is listed for 2-5 players, Spite stands no chance against 2 heroes, try it yourself. I tried a straight-up match of Spite vs his nemesis The Wraith just for kicks, and she once again smashed him!
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James
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Yokiboy wrote:
salty53 wrote:
...illegally...



The game is listed for 2-5 players, Spite stands no chance against 2 heroes, try it yourself. I tried a straight-up match of Spite vs his nemesis The Wraith just for kicks, and she once again smashed him!


I lost against Spite with Mr. Fixer and Expatriette. It was a pretty sad outing; being under the "H" threshold kept the heroes in the game but I somehow couldn't land enough body blows on him to take him out before attrition did the heroes in. It is possible I was playing poorly!

So...Eeeville...how did the game go? I'm eager to find out.

 
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Mark Johnson
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I really enjoyed the game. I can't believe how many counters we needed to keep track of damage! Anyway, our first game, we played against Baron Blade in Metropolis. My friend used Visionary, I used Ra and each of us used a downed hero which I thought may help enough to give us a chance at winning. We still lost. We tried again vs the same villain and environment, this time my friend used Tachyon, I used Tempest and we still used a downed hero each. This time we pulled out a victory. In our last game, we played against Omnitron in 'the fire based environment with the countdown' Mars? This time we felt comfortable enough to use two heroes each. He used Haka/Legacy and I used Fanatic/Bunker. We ended up winning this one as well.

Anyway, had a lot of fun with it and am going to kickstart the Enhanced edition with the expansion and promos!
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Brook Gentlestream
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Congrats! So far, I haven't been able to beat anybody except Baron Blade (who didn't stand a chance).
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Roberta Yang
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Yokiboy wrote:


The game is listed for 2-5 players, Spite stands no chance against 2 heroes, try it yourself. I tried a straight-up match of Spite vs his nemesis The Wraith just for kicks, and she once again smashed him!

And if you actually read the rulebook, you'll see that in games with only two players, each player controls two heroes, so there are four heroes present. Using anything less than three heroes is an unofficial variant, and it's not the game designers' fault that the game isn't built to handle your alternate ruleset.

And considering that going down to an illegally low number of heroes turns off Spite's ability to deal damage (since the game isn't designed for H-2 or H-1 to ever be equal to zero), and the hero you're using is the Wraith (whose Stun Bolt already turns all minionless villains into jokes), of course it's going to be easy. But that's a horrible way of trying to determine whether Spite is easier with 3 heroes or 5.
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James
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Eeeville, that's terrific. It sounds like you had some fun games there. It's great that you enjoyed it enough for the Kickstarter pledge.

I'm not going to get worked up about the two heroes/two players mini-thread, but I do see now that it makes sense never to have only two heroes in play with the newer releases. That hadn't occurred to me before (oops). Eeeville, it's really only a big issue with the expansions and the second edition of the base game that introduce a new mechanic (the "H" scaling mechanic). Don't pay this mini-topic any mind for now.

You've got to take Absolute Zero for a ride soon; you'll like him a lot. If your first game was playing Visionary, you're ready for any kind of hero, I think!
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Yoki Erdtman
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salty53 wrote:
And if you actually read the rulebook, you'll see that in games with only two players, each player controls two heroes, so there are four heroes present. Using anything less than three heroes is an unofficial variant, and it's not the game designers' fault that the game isn't built to handle your alternate ruleset.

Sigh! Seriously, I've read the rules. I have played against Spite with 3+ heroes as well. I decided to try with just 2, and after they trounced him I tried a single hero just for laughs. However, I expect the gaming police to come arrest me for my illegal play any time now.

salty53 wrote:
And considering that going down to an illegally low number of heroes turns off Spite's ability to deal damage (since the game isn't designed for H-2 or H-1 to ever be equal to zero), and the hero you're using is the Wraith (whose Stun Bolt already turns all minionless villains into jokes), of course it's going to be easy. But that's a horrible way of trying to determine whether Spite is easier with 3 heroes or 5.

Illegally...

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Mark Johnson
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Brother Jim wrote:
Eeeville, it's really only a big issue with the expansions and the second edition of the base game that introduce a new mechanic (the "H" scaling mechanic). Don't pay this mini-topic any mind for now.

You've got to take Absolute Zero for a ride soon; you'll like him a lot. If your first game was playing Visionary, you're ready for any kind of hero, I think!


Yeah, I know about the 'H' mechanism from the expansion after reading the forums but I didn't want to read an extra set of rules to see if there was anything else the expansion added. It will be nice when the enhanced edition is released to make the base game and expansions uniform... both with the H mechanism and pictures on environment cards.

Well, my friend used Visionary, but I'm ready to see what Wraith and Absolute Zero bring to the table. I still have to try 2 more environments and villains as well. I'll have to make sure I have my poker chips for the damage tokens as my Ascension Honor tokens ran out when fighting Omnitron.
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