Chris Buhl
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According to this fellow, who seems to know his stuff, square cornered dice are more likely to roll fairly (i.e. "grant equal access to each face of the die...")



I thought, given the recent Kickstarter survey, this information might be relevant.
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Paul DeStefano
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Worrying about the change of odds from rounded dice to square is really a futile statistical argument. It would take hundreds of thousands of rolls to reach a significant delta variation. Since players are rolling the same style dice, the point becomes even more muddied.
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Chad Lawrence
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I voted for rounded dice because they hurt less when your kids leave them on the floor and you accidentally step on them in the middle of the night.
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Chris Buhl
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Geosphere wrote:
Worrying about the change of odds from rounded dice to square is really a futile statistical argument. It would take hundreds of thousands of rolls to reach a significant delta variation. Since players are rolling the same style dice, the point becomes even more muddied.


I'm not sure if I see it that way. I just played a couple of turns of Liberty Roads, and both players rolled a ton of 10 and higher's. I'm not saying it was because of those dice, it was a very small sample size. Still, the impact of the game on both players rolling consistently high was quite drastic. It didn't imbalance things, but it changed the game noticeably, right from the outset.

I've never played this game, so I have no idea how many die rolls you make, or if one side or the other tends to make more die rolls (I think that in this game there are lots of units attacking a single OGRE, something like that), or if high rolls vs. low rolls impact one side more than another. I also don't know how often anyone out there might play the game once they buy it (thus how many times they'll roll the dice it comes with).

It may be a moot point. Still, I'd prefer to have dice that tend to roll a more even distribution than not, if I had a choice. And that's what the latest survey is asking (what are choice for dice would be). So, if it's not an issue, it's not an issue. If your choice about that will be based more on function than on form, then at least you're armed now with more data than before you saw this.

I also like how square cornered dice look better, so it's a no-brainer for me, anyway.
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Chris Buhl
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chademe wrote:
I voted for rounded dice because they hurt less when your kids leave them on the floor and you accidentally step on them in the middle of the night.


Right, didn't think of that one. Can I re-take the survey? devil
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David Hoffman
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Geosphere wrote:
Worrying about the change of odds from rounded dice to square is really a futile statistical argument. It would take hundreds of thousands of rolls to reach a significant delta variation. Since players are rolling the same style dice, the point becomes even more muddied.


For whatever it's worth, here's a guy who did such a study.

Link to the Story

"Only" 144,000 die rolls, but he found a serious trend towards rolling 1's over anything else on rounded, indented dice.
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Aaron Morgan
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All together, repeat the mantra:

fatgreta wrote:
it was a very small sample size

fatgreta wrote:
it was a very small sample size

fatgreta wrote:
it was a very small sample size

fatgreta wrote:
it was a very small sample size

fatgreta wrote:
it was a very small sample size

fatgreta wrote:
it was a very small sample size


Our brains are wired to notice patterns, so anomalous results in a small sample size will always stand out.
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David Derksen
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Both of the choices have rounded corners. The 'square dice' are merely less rounded.

Square dice would have sharp corners - like casino dice.

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Damien
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Sold me, I just bought three of the glow in the dark dice off of the game station site.
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Aaron Bohm
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I voted for rounded because I had heard square edges (like casino dice) were more accurate however were less resiliant and more prone to dents and chips (thus making them less accurate after a short amount of time).

If there was a prevalence, say for rounded dice to roll 1's, would that favor any particular side in Ogre (I would assume it would slightly favor the Ogre)?

Also, I think the rounded edges look nicer, fiends!

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Steve Rogers
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no gaming company is going to spend the money for casino quality dice. Since there is no money on the line, neither am I.

"Precision" dice have mold sprue tabs and plent of what I percieve as imperfections. yuk

Wood dice look nice, but frequently have knots and variables that favor certain sides. shake

I personally like rounded dice as they respond entertainingly to throwing styles that use "english". devil

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Larry Smith
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As a backgammon player, I have read a lot about this topic. The general consensus among serious backgammon players is that casino dice only more random if you have a large space to roll them. This is why a craps table is long and you have to bounce them off the back wall which has a textured surface to make them tumble off axis. The reason that casino dice are good and cost so much is that they are milled instead of die cast and the pips are filled in so that the die is completely balanced. You can buy smaller dice with rounded corner that have been milled instead of cast and that have filled in pips but they are prohibitively expensive for anything other than backgammon played for money. These are called precision dice (what Game Science calls precision dice are not the same although GS dice might be better made than most cast dice). If you read the results of the research below you will find that the square cornered cast dice did just as poorly as the rounded cast dice. The casino dice are more accurate because they are milled to very strict standards. In short rounded corners are better unless you have a VERY large area to roll.
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Martin Gallo
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dkwd wrote:
Both of the choices have rounded corners. The 'square dice' are merely less rounded.

Square dice would have sharp corners - like casino dice.

I hate square dice. I like my dice to be cool.
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Kelly Page
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The real question is "how does the color of the die affect the outcome?"
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Chris Buhl
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EitherOrlok wrote:
All together, repeat the mantra:


fatgreta wrote:
it was a very small sample size


Our brains are wired to notice patterns, so anomalous results in a small sample size will always stand out.


Right, and you'll notice that post wasn't about the dice, it was about the potential impact on game play if the dice being used tend toward one end of the spectrum or the other.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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DrRednek wrote:
The real question is "how does the color of the die affect the outcome?"

Ah, and if one of the players is colorblind would that player have the advantage?
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Chris Bender
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I almost always use dice cups, and I feel like a good shake of the cup will randomize almost anything enough for my tastes.

They're also great for wargames like Ogre because each player can slam the cup on the table, and simultaneously reveal for maximum excitement.

Man, I cannot wait to play some Ogre again; deluxe style.
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Chris Buhl
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Never Knows Best wrote:
DrRednek wrote:
The real question is "how does the color of the die affect the outcome?"

Ah, and if one of the players is colorblind would that player have the advantage?


I play against two guys who are colorblind (and weirdly, both named Dave), and they both tend to thrash me at games, so...
 
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chrisbender wrote:
I almost always use dice cups, and I feel like a good shake of the cup will randomize almost anything enough for my tastes.

They're also great for wargames like Ogre because each player can slam the cup on the table, and simultaneously reveal for maximum excitement.

Man, I cannot wait to play some Ogre again; deluxe style.


Though I agree dice cups are more fun and the more motion, the better chance of good randomization with balanced dice, but I think the point being made about sharp edges is that you have a better chance of all the faces being equal sizes which prevents the dice from coming to a stop on a certain face more than others. No amount of shaking nor the tallest dice tower will help a badly proportioned die. The video posits that the process to round the corners/edges makes uneven faces and unbalanced dice.
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If you cant trust the dice to be random, then randomize the CRT, get 6 cards (mtg commons with a white sticker on them) put a different version of the CRT on each, shuffle, roll, draw a CRT, done.
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Mike DeLance
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DrRednek wrote:
The real question is "how does the color of the die affect the outcome?"


Well, red ones roll faster...
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Desi Mims
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This reminds me of watching someone's first time reading the difference between the terms "random" and "pseudo-random". They seem to suddenly get offended that all the "Random" stuff in their computers was actually just pseudo-random... and much like the pseudo-random vs. true random issue, this is pretty much irrelevant to game play. If your dice were screwed up enough to legitimately effect game play, you'd notice... And even then, it'd probably just be in your head. As has been said before:
"it was a very small sample size"
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Erich Cranor
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I think it's more important that round cornered sixers are much more likely to roll around and spin on 'corners'. They also, for all their rolling, are more likely to go off the table or displace other game markers etc. The end result is that at a minimum more time overall is spent on dice rolling, and it is more likely there will be minor annoyances stemming from dice roll mishaps.

A tower or dish solves those problems but then the rounded corners mean a die is more likely to end up cocked, so they still slow things down.

Not a big deal at all, but it does make round dice strictly worse imho

Oh well, since rounded won the survey at least I'm spared the temptation of ordering any extras.
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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Interesting observation and studies... I remember reading and watching this guy who has a machine that rolls dice and a digital camera to capture the result to create randomly generated numbers for some online game. Wonder what his statistics say...

EDIT: Found the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n8LNxGbZbs) and site (http://gamesbyemail.com/News/DiceOMatic).
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