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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Map Tiles and Extras? rss

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Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
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So, one of my interests is in designing and building miniatures terrain, and I've always felt that Descent deserves some awesome dungeon 3D terrain to go with it. There are issues surrounding this (how to create walls on a 2D board without changing the actual layout, without adding/removing floor squares, etc.) However, one major issue with Descent v.1 was always that the floor had added extras, unique to each scenario. Pits, water, lava, and all the rest. It was glorious!

However ... none of the photos of dungeon layouts, nor of the unpunched cardstock sheets in the displays, show any of those old floor-tile extras. No lava, no water, no pits.

Am I wrong? Did I miss a photo?

Because if not ... well, that's rather sad! I loved the customizability of Descent, and I'd hate to lose that.

And I'd hate to have future expansions add it as an afterthought.

And I'd really hate to make new terrain that suddenly didn't work for the game I'd designed it for (but that's just me bitching).

Anybody spot any lava/pits/water/webs etc. in the shots so far?
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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It's all part of the "streamlining". Those extras just slowed the game down...

-shnar
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Athos
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They appear to be printed directly on the boards now.
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Scott Lewis
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shnar wrote:
It's all part of the "streamlining". Those extras just slowed the game down...

This isn't completely untrue; having to find and place all the appropriate obstacle markers DID take some time. Maybe only a few minutes per area, but in larger dungeons that can add up.

Of course, I'm guessing that the square size will be the same and that you can just use your D1E stuff in the new game if you want, and it would probably work just fine!
 
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Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
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Well, making custom terrain is rather time-consuming, and if I created stuff exactly as the maptiles are printed, without customizability options, and *then* an expansion came out that added them, that'd cheese me off big-time!

Plus ... OH, I don't know, it was so cool to be able to make scenarios that had tactically-interesting facets based on the terrain. Cutting down on those options might save a little time, but it also reduces an awful lot of the fun and replayability for me.

Granted, it *did* get a little crazy with the tokens by the end, but the core idea was so fun and useful!
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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sigmazero13 wrote:
shnar wrote:
It's all part of the "streamlining". Those extras just slowed the game down...

This isn't completely untrue;

I never said it was untrue. It did slow the game down, and 2nd Ed is all about "streamlining" the game. Not having to place a lot of board components speeds things up. Not having to worry about where your figure moves on the board speeds things up. Not having to remember what effect different spaces will have on your figures speeds things up, etc.

-shnar
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Scott Lewis
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shnar wrote:
Not having to worry about where your figure moves on the board speeds things up. Not having to remember what effect different spaces will have on your figures speeds things up, etc.

These may be true, but I'm not sure how that relates to D2E; the tiles look like they have terrain printed on them, and I haven't seen anything to indicate they don't have effect on gameplay.
 
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Chris J Davis
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BodhiWolff wrote:
Well, making custom terrain is rather time-consuming, and if I created stuff exactly as the maptiles are printed, without customizability options, and *then* an expansion came out that added them, that'd cheese me off big-time!

Plus ... OH, I don't know, it was so cool to be able to make scenarios that had tactically-interesting facets based on the terrain. Cutting down on those options might save a little time, but it also reduces an awful lot of the fun and replayability for me.

Granted, it *did* get a little crazy with the tokens by the end, but the core idea was so fun and useful!


I'm willing to bet the effects of different terrain (which is now printed directly on the tiles) will be specified in each scenario. So for example, in one scenario the "water" squares will simply prevent hero movement, in another maybe an evil mage who can cast lightning spells will cause double damage to any hero standing in or adjacent to a water square, in another certain monsters will spawn from the water squares, etc.

So although there's less variation in geographical configurations, there's a lot more variety in game effects (which to me is more important).
 
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Frank Franco
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Hold onto your first edition - all those terrain effects and tiles are sure to come in handy!
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Stephen Williams
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shnar wrote:
Not having to worry about where your figure moves on the board speeds things up.


It's true that they appear to have cut the majority of the modular terrain, but I was sort of assuming they'd still have a few tokens for things like traps. Has there been any new information I may have missed that suggests they've removed pits?

Last I checked, the notion that there won't be any modular terrain was deduced from the observation that the token count in 2e was substantially smaller than the token count in 1e, combined with the observation that all of the tiles we've seen in screen shots seem to have a lot of terrain-looking stuff printed on them.

That said, the token count in 2e isn't zero. Cutting lava and fog and mud, etc makes sense to speed up gameplay. Cutting pits and rubble (as trap tokens) would be pretty sad. Maybe there won't be as many of them as 1e had, but I thought there would still be a few.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Stewi wrote:
shnar wrote:
Not having to worry about where your figure moves on the board speeds things up.


It's true that they appear to have cut the majority of the modular terrain, but I was sort of assuming they'd still have a few tokens for things like traps. Has there been any new information I may have missed that suggests they've removed pits?

Last I checked, the notion that there won't be any modular terrain was deduced from the observation that the token count in 2e was substantially smaller than the token count in 1e, combined with the observation that all of the tiles we've seen in screen shots seem to have a lot of terrain-looking stuff printed on them.

That said, the token count in 2e isn't zero. Cutting lava and fog and mud, etc makes sense to speed up gameplay. Cutting pits and rubble (as trap tokens) would be pretty sad. Maybe there won't be as many of them as 1e had, but I thought there would still be a few.


There may be pit tokens, but I doubt rubble tokens. Basically, any "dynamic" board element may still be represented by tokens (like traps), but any static board element is now pre-printed.
 
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JD Snider
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Stewi wrote:
shnar wrote:
Not having to worry about where your figure moves on the board speeds things up.


It's true that they appear to have cut the majority of the modular terrain, but I was sort of assuming they'd still have a few tokens for things like traps. Has there been any new information I may have missed that suggests they've removed pits?

Last I checked, the notion that there won't be any modular terrain was deduced from the observation that the token count in 2e was substantially smaller than the token count in 1e, combined with the observation that all of the tiles we've seen in screen shots seem to have a lot of terrain-looking stuff printed on them.

That said, the token count in 2e isn't zero. Cutting lava and fog and mud, etc makes sense to speed up gameplay. Cutting pits and rubble (as trap tokens) would be pretty sad. Maybe there won't be as many of them as 1e had, but I thought there would still be a few.


There may be pit tokens, but I doubt rubble tokens. Basically, any "dynamic" board element may still be represented by tokens (like traps), but any static board element is now pre-printed.


We might still get some 'rubble' type tokens. There WAS mention in the previews of the possibility of heroes having to pass a skill check to move a 'boulder'. Probably easiest to represent something like that with a token (so it could be removed if the check was passed).
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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There are definitely still traps, but I have a feeling they will be instant effect traps in the flavor of pass skill check or suffer this damage for one turn. So a pit trap would be if fail lose one action but there would be no marker to put on the table (sonce that slows things down).

-shnar
 
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Pete C

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How much of the reduction of these components is really due to a "streamlining of the game" rather than rising production costs and a desire to keep the street price down?

On a side note, I don't understand the format of this forum interface...which reply button do I hit just to add to the conversation...the one from the original post? Seems a bit...fiddly if you asked me.
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noodles
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I suspect that since they are going with obstacles printed directly on the map pieces that we will see lava, fog, etc. directly on the expansion map pieces. Seems to me that expansions may consist of a new campaign, new tiles, new cards, and maybe a couple new monsters.

But I'm still keeping all my 1e components
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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OrlandoPete wrote:
How much of the reduction of these components is really due to a "streamlining of the game" rather than rising production costs and a desire to keep the street price down?

On a side note, I don't understand the format of this forum interface...which reply button do I hit just to add to the conversation...the one from the original post? Seems a bit...fiddly if you asked me.


Could be a mixture of both, killing two birds with one stone (streamlining and making production more cost effective).

As for the forum, I love it. I can reply at any point and it sticks it on the bottom. I don't have to scroll down to a "reply" button, then scroll back and forth to read the post I'm referring to.

-shnar
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Scott Lewis
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shnar wrote:
OrlandoPete wrote:
How much of the reduction of these components is really due to a "streamlining of the game" rather than rising production costs and a desire to keep the street price down?

On a side note, I don't understand the format of this forum interface...which reply button do I hit just to add to the conversation...the one from the original post? Seems a bit...fiddly if you asked me.


Could be a mixture of both, killing two birds with one stone (streamlining and making production more cost effective).

I'm not convinced that "streamlining" necessarily always means "make things take less time" (although they are often related). Sometimes I think "streamlining" just means reducing tedium. While I didn't mind the original terrain, setting up each area WAS rather tedious, and I don't mind having pre-printed terrain, though like others I'll be keeping my 1E terrain as well for custom quests.

Quote:
As for the forum, I love it. I can reply at any point and it sticks it on the bottom. I don't have to scroll down to a "reply" button, then scroll back and forth to read the post I'm referring to.

These forums are pretty slick overall I like that part as well. I often like using the "quick quote" feature when I want to quote multiple people at once without having to go back and forth with my reply, also; Quick Quote, snag the part I want, paste it into my "full" response wherever that may be (probably in another Quick Quote window).
 
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