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Subject: Review my Dominion Fan Expansion based on LotR rss

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Caleb Hand
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Hey all,
I've made a fan expansion based off Lord of the Rings and I want people to give me feedback on the cards. Are the cards fair, interesting, and appropriately written? I look forward to hearing the thoughts of the BGG community.

Caleb

Fellowship Mat:
Eight cards are designated as “Fellowship Member”. When these cards are played, as noted, they may be placed on the Fellowship mat. Other cards may place cards or remove cards from the Fellowship Mat by playing other cards. At the beginning of a player’s turn they may choose to return one card on their Fellowship Mat to their hand without using an action. At the end of the game, all cards on the Fellowship Mats are returned to that player’s deck.

Optional Rule:
Take one of each of the eight Fellowship members and make a supply of these shuffled cards. When purchasing them, the player must purchase the top one without looking at the others in the stack. This option is best if using this set in combination with the other sets because it allows for the Fellowship Member cards to activate more.

1. Frodo Baggins
Action
Cost: 4
+1 Card, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or +2 Actions. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, each player places a Silver from the supply pile on their Fellowship Mat. / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

2. Gandalf
Action
Cost: 4
+2 Actions, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or place a card from your hand on top of your deck. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, place this card on top of your deck. / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

3. Aragorn
Action
Cost: 4
+1 Card, +1 Action, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or place one Estate card on your Fellowship Mat. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, you may gain one Estate card. / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

4. Samwise Gamgee
Action-Attack
Cost: 4
+1 Card, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or +1 Card. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, each other player reveals a Victory card from his hand and puts it on his deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards). / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

5. Boromir
Action-Attack
Cost: 3
+1 Action, Each player (including you) gains one Curse, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or you may trash up to two cards from your hand. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, you may return one Curse card to the supply. / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

6. Legolas
Action-Attack
Cost: 3
+1 Action, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or +1 Card. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, each opponent must discard down to three cards. / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

7. Merry and Pippin
Action-Attack
Cost: 3
+1 Coin, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or +1 Buy. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, you may gain a copper card from the supply and place it on your Fellowship Mat. / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

8. Gimli
Action
Cost: 3
+1 Card, Choose two: Place this card on your Fellowship Mat, you may return up to three cards from your Fellowship Mat to your hand, or +1 Action. If you have played a Fellowship Member card of a different name this turn, you may trash a card you’re your hand and gain a card costing up to 1 more than the trashed card’s cost. / This card counts as a Fellowship Member

9. Bilbo Baggins
Action
Cost: 3
+1 Coin, Choose one: Place the Mithral Chain token on your Fellowship Mat or Place the Sting token on your Fellowship Mat / While this card is in the supply pile, if a player has the Mithril Chain token on their Fellowhip Mat at the beginning of their turn they may draw one card and if they have the Sting token on their Fellowship Mat at the beginning of their turn they get +1 Action during their Action phase

10. Elrond
Action
Cost: 2
+1 Card, +1 Action, You may trash up to 3 cards, one of which must be a Curse.

11. Arwen
Action-Reaction
Cost: 2
+2 Cards; When an opponent plays a card that would cause you to gain a Curse, you may reveal this card. If you do, that opponent gains a Curse and may gain a card costing up to 2.

12. Galadriel
Action
Cost: 5
You may trash two cards that are at have a cost of at least 5 each, if you do, gain a Prize (from the prize pool). If there are no cards in the prize supply, you may gain a Province instead

13. Theodan
Action-Duration
Cost: 4
+1 Buy, +2 Coins; If you trash a Curse during this turn or your next, +3 Actions

14. Eomer
Action-Reaction
Cost: 4
+1 Action; You may discard this card from your hand when a player plays a Treasure card. You may gain a Treasure card that costs less than the played Treasure card.

15. Eowyn
Action-Reaction
Cost: 4
+1 Card; You may discard this card from your hand when a player plays a Victory card. You may gain a Victory card that costs less than the played Treasure card.

16. Faramir
Action-Attack
Cost: 3
All players must reveal the top card of their deck. You may choose one to place in your discard pile. If you choose one of your opponent’s cards, that opponent may gain a card costing up to the same cost of the card taken.

17. The Shire
Victory
Cost: 2
Worth 1 Victory for every combination of Estate and Copper in your deck

18. Gates of Mordor
Action
Cost: 4
+1 Action; You may discard up to four Treasure cards. For each card discarded this way draw a card.

19. Mount Doom
Action
Cost: 2
Each player (including you) must trash one or two cards. For each card trashed, the player may gain a Copper on their Fellowship Mat

20. Edoras
Action
Cost: 4
+1 Card for every two cards (rounded down) on your Fellowship Mat. / When you gain this card, you may put one card from your hand on your Fellowship Mat.

21. Minas Tirith
Action
Cost: 4
+2 Coins, You may look through your discard pile, take one Minas Tirith card out if there are any, and play it immediately

22. Isengard
Action
Cost: 3
+1 Action, +2 Buys / When you buy this card, you may trash a Victory card.

23. Rivendell
Action-Victory
Cost: 5
Choose one: Gain one card costing up to three coins and place it on your Fellowship Mat or Gain one card costing up to four coins; +1 Victory

24. Moria
Action
Cost: 4
+3 Coins; Trash one card from your hand

25. Helm’s Deep
Action-Reaction
Cost: 4
+1 Action, Gain an Action card costing up to 3; When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, you are not affected by the Attack.

26. Dead Marshes
Action
Cost: 2
+1 Action, Each other player must reveal one card from their hand and place it on top of their deck. / When you gain this, each player (including you) gains a Curse, but you may choose to put it in your hand, on the top of your deck, in your discard pile, or on your Fellowship Mat

27. Lothlorien
Victory
Cost: 4
Worth 1 Victory for every card on your Fellowship Mat at the end of the game (including this one). / When you gain this card, place it on your Fellowship Mat.

28. Sauron
Action-Attack
Cost: 6
All other players reveal their hands and must discard down to three cards (your choice). They gain one Curse card, putting it on top of their deck.

29. Saruman
Action
Cost: 4
You may trash a Victory card and gain a Treasure card costing up to 3 more than the cost of the Victory card.

30. Gollum
Action
Cost: 2
You may look through the trash pile and gain one card from it costing up to 5. If there are no cards in the trash pile, you may gain a Silver.

31. Grima Wormtongue
Action-Attack
Cost: 5
You may look through each opponent’s discard pile and choose one card from one discard pile to put in your discard pile. That opponent may then choose to gain one card costing up to 1 less than the card taken.

32. Denethor
Action-Duration
Cost: 3
+1 Action; Until your next turn, when an opponent gains a card, you may gain the same card if you trash a card from your hand.

33. Uruk Hai
Action
Cost: 2
+1 Card, +1 Action; If this is not the first time you have played Uruk Hai this turn, +1 Action

34. Treebeard
Action-Attack
Cost: 4
+1 Card, Opponents must discard down to three cards. When you play this, any revealed Reaction cards are discarded after they are revealed.

35. Balrog
Action-Attack
Cost: 5
All other players must trash a card from their hand then gain a card costing exactly 1 less coin than the trashed card.

36. Nazgul
Action-Attack
Cost: 4
You may look at each opponent’s cards on their Fellowship Mat and choose one to trash. If no opponent has cards on their Fellowship Mat, you may gain a card costing up to 4 instead.

37. Riders of Rohan
Action
Cost: 4
+2 Actions, You may reveal the top three cards of your deck and put any Action cards in your hand. Discard the remaining revealed cards.

38. Haradrim
Action
Cost: 2
Choose one: +2 Actions or You may trash this card immediately for +3 Actions. When you play this card discard a Treasure card or trash an Action card.

39. The One Ring
Treasure-Duration
Cost: 4
+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy. Each turn after this one +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, gain one Curse from the supply and place it on your Fellowship Mat, and you may return this card to the supply. If you play this card or this card is in play and there are no Curse cards in the supply, trash a Victory card or trash this card.

40. The Palantir
Action-Duration
Cost: 2
+2 Cards; All players (including you) play with their hands revealed until the end of your next turn.

 
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Michael
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So the shire is basically a 2-cost duchy that can get better? Maybe OP
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Jonathan Tullsen
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"the one ring" should be twice as powerful.At least. For -1vp a turn plus cluttering my deck, I wouldn't buy it.
 
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Caleb Hand
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How is the Shire a 2 Cost Duchy? I assume you mean because you start game with three Estates and three Copper. I see your point, but a lot of people try to ditch their Estates and Copper if they can and this would discourage that.

What are your suggestions for changing it then? Increase the cost?

Caleb
 
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Caleb Hand
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Good point about "The One Ring". Think if I doubled it to +2 Cards, +2 Actions, +2 Buys it would be appropriate? Maybe add +2 Coins?

What are your suggestions?

Caleb
 
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Michael
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calebhand wrote:
How is the Shire a 2 Cost Duchy? I assume you mean because you start game with three Estates and three Copper. I see your point, but a lot of people try to ditch their Estates and Copper if they can and this would discourage that.

What are your suggestions for changing it then? Increase the cost?

Caleb


Yeah it is a good idea to ditch Estates and Copper normally, but with shire it would be very much the opposite.
First off, it's very uncommon to be able to ditch a lot of your copper so you are going to mainly focus on estates.

I would compare this card to "Duke". Duke is worth one point for every duchy in your possession. Duke is a well made card. It is useful with some strategies in some sets, but not all. Duke costs 5. In order for duke to be worth 3 points, you need 3 duchy's in your deck. Shire would start out that way, for less than half the cost. So even if players do ditch their initial estates, it is still an incredibly easy way to make points. The point producing power of this card is over the top. In order to make this card comparable with what is already out there, you need to at least double the cost. Additionally, while the copper/estate combination idea is neat, realistically in most cases it will be just estates. Maybe 1 point for every 2copper/estate combination?
 
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Additionally Faramir needs instructions what players do with cards that are unselected. Do they go back on the deck or into the discard pile? Seems OP to me, you may want to exclude victory cards from it, or put a cost limit on steal-able cards. Most games are pretty tight, and it would be also chancy if you won by making someone draw a province.
 
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calebhand wrote:
Good point about "The One Ring". Think if I doubled it to +2 Cards, +2 Actions, +2 Buys it would be appropriate? Maybe add +2 Coins?

What are your suggestions?

Caleb

Yeah, if was all those 4 I think that would be balanced. Maybe a little bit overpowered, but it should cost 8 or so and there should only be one available. You might even be able to work out a rule where somehow it got passed to another opponent. After all... It does have a mind of its own..... heh heh heh
 
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Caleb Hand
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I've made some changes per suggestions. Not all taken, but definitely thought about. The three edited cards are below. What about the rest of the set? Any thoughts on the other cards?

Caleb

16. Faramir
Action-Attack
Cost: 4
All players must reveal the top card of their deck. You may choose one non-Victory card revealed this way to place in your discard pile. All other cards are returned to the top of their deck. If you choose one of your opponent’s cards, that opponent may gain a card costing up to the same cost of the card taken.

17. The Shire
Victory
Cost: 4
Worth 1 Victory for every combination of Estate and Copper in your deck

39. The One Ring
Treasure-Duration
Cost: 6
+2 Cards, +2 Actions, +2 Buys, +2 Coins. Each turn after this one +2 Cards, +2 Actions, +2 Buys, +2 Coins, and gain one Curse from the supply that is placed on your Fellowship Mat, and you may return this card to the supply. If you play this card or this card is in play and there are no Curse cards in the supply, trash a Victory card or trash this card. If you play this card while another copy of The One Ring is already in play, trash the copy that was in play first. / When this card is gained, gain one Curse from the supply that is placed on your Fellowship Mat.


 
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Tom
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calebhand wrote:


11. Arwen
Action-Reaction
Cost: 2
+2 Cards; When an opponent plays a card that would cause you to gain a Curse, you may reveal this card. If you do, that opponent gains a Curse and may gain a card costing up to 2.



And back and forth. This could stall the game if everyone has this card.
calebhand wrote:



15. Eowyn
Action-Reaction
Cost: 4
+1 Card; You may discard this card from your hand when a player plays a Victory card. You may gain a Victory card that costs less than the played Treasure card.


I'm guessing that's a typo. Also, I'm not a big fan of these cards since it would end the game much quicker (I think), but that's just personal preference.

calebhand wrote:


19. Mount Doom
Action
Cost: 2
Each player (including you) must trash one or two cards. For each card trashed, the player may gain a Copper on their Fellowship Mat

Could end the game quite quickly. What if, in a 4 player game, everyone buys one on the first turn? What if it's a 4-player game, and the three poeple before you play one? You're stuck with a whopping 2 cards! Oh wait, you can get a copper from the fellowship mat - getting a copper is crappy.

calebhand wrote:





22. Isengard
Action
Cost: 3
+1 Action, +2 Buys / When you buy this card, you may trash a Victory card.

I think there's a reason +action +buy cards usually cost more than 3. Also this one trims your deck. Seems very strong to me.

calebhand wrote:


24. Moria
Action
Cost: 4
+3 Coins; Trash one card from your hand


Seems cheap. Mandarin is the only card that give you +$3, and this one also trims your deck.

calebhand wrote:



26. Dead Marshes
Action
Cost: 2
+1 Action, Each other player must reveal one card from their hand and place it on top of their deck. / When you gain this, each player (including you) gains a Curse, but you may choose to put it in your hand, on the top of your deck, in your discard pile, or on your Fellowship Mat

Are the other players also free to put it anywhere? What if the three players before you buy this one on their first turn? How screwed are you?

calebhand wrote:





29. Saruman
Action
Cost: 4
You may trash a Victory card and gain a Treasure card costing up to 3 more than the cost of the Victory card.


Victory card costs: 2-5-8-11
Treasure costs: 0-3-6-9
So you'd get a marginally better deal, except that you would probably only use this to Samuran (because it's a verb now) an estate into a silver. Meh.

calebhand wrote:


31. Grima Wormtongue
Action-Attack
Cost: 5
You may look through each opponent’s discard pile and choose one card from one discard pile to put in your discard pile. That opponent may then choose to gain one card costing up to 1 less than the card taken.

That would take a long time. Also quite powerful in the end, when there are a lot of victory cards in play. What if you had a nice bunch of provinces, and the other three play this card? You're out 9 points! Kingmaking, or ganging up on the leader (or the jerk who keeps checking his phone - what is he doing here anyway?), I believe this is called, and that's the reason Dominion cards never have attacks only attacking 1 other player.

calebhand wrote:


32. Denethor
Action-Duration
Cost: 3
+1 Action; Until your next turn, when an opponent gains a card, you may gain the same card if you trash a card from your hand.


Costs the same as smuggler, except is way better!

calebhand wrote:


33. Uruk Hai
Action
Cost: 2
+1 Card, +1 Action; If this is not the first time you have played Uruk Hai this turn, +1 Action

Sounds very similar to another card. I may be wrong though.

calebhand wrote:




36. Nazgul
Action-Attack
Cost: 4
You may look at each opponent’s cards on their Fellowship Mat and choose one to trash. If no opponent has cards on their Fellowship Mat, you may gain a card costing up to 4 instead.

Takes a long time and again an attack that only attacks one person.

calebhand wrote:


37. Riders of Rohan
Action
Cost: 4
+2 Actions, You may reveal the top three cards of your deck and put any Action cards in your hand. Discard the remaining revealed cards.


I like having to discard the other cards. Nice twist.

calebhand wrote:


38. Haradrim
Action
Cost: 2
Choose one: +2 Actions or You may trash this card immediately for +3 Actions. When you play this card discard a Treasure card or trash an Action card.

Seems fun


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Michael
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xTomer wrote:
calebhand wrote:


11. Arwen
Action-Reaction
Cost: 2
+2 Cards; When an opponent plays a card that would cause you to gain a Curse, you may reveal this card. If you do, that opponent gains a Curse and may gain a card costing up to 2.



And back and forth. This could stall the game if everyone has this card.

Could be solved simply by changing "reveal" to "discard" or "Set aside and return at the beginning of your turn."

Additionally, cards that allow opponents to gain a card of their choice, such as Saboteur, could you choose to gain a curse, just to reveal this card?
 
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Emile de Maat
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Moved Thread
Moved this thread from the General Gaming forum to the Dominion Variants forum.
 
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Caleb Hand
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That was going to be my edit to Arwen. Change it to "reveal and discard". Re: the gaining a card of your choice, Arwen says "when an opponent plays a card" so that means you couldn't buy a Curse or gain it another way, just to gain another Curse and a third card up to 2.

Caleb
 
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Caleb Hand
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Re: Arwen- I'm changing it to "reveal and discard"

Re: Eowyn- Yes, a typo. It should read "+1 Card; You may discard this card from your hand when a player plays a Treasure card. You may gain a Victory card that costs less than the played Treasure card."

Re: Mount Doom- I see what you're saying. I think upping the cost to 4 would help this. Do you have a different suggestion for it instead?

Re: Isengard- True, a 4 cost is probably more reasonable so you can't buy it both first two turns.

Re: Moria- True about Mandarin, but that also makes you put all played Treasure cards back on top of your deck when you gain it. I think in the end Moria is ok.

Re: Dead Marshes- I've changed the wording by taking out the word "you" and "your". It now reads "When you gain this, each player (including you) gains a Curse, but may choose to put it in their hand, on the top of their deck, in their discard pile, or on their Fellowship Mat"

Re: Saruman- I wasn't just thinking of the base Victory and Treasure cards, but all the others that are out there now too, including the bunch that are in this set. Does that change your thoughts or is it still just an ok card?

Re: Grima Wormtongue- What about if it had a cost cap like a card up to 6 or 7 cost?

Re: Denethor- True. I'm going to take out the +1 Action and make it +1 Coin and I'm going to up the cost to 5.

Re: Uruk Hai- I can't think of the card you're thinking is the same. There are some that let you discard cards for more actions or buys.

Re: Nazgul- I don't think the looking through the cards takes that long. I do see what you're saying about targeting, and I'll take that under advisement. Any suggestions for it?

Re: Riders of Rohan- Glad to see something looks good.

Re: Haradrim- I like that one too.

 
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Tom
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Mount Doom: you can still get stuck with a 2-card hand, having to trash some really good cards. I don't think it's a good concept. There are a few cards that make other people trash cards, and it's 1. not from their hand, and 2. they get something worthwhile in return.

Isengard: it's still a card that allows you to have 2 extra buys, which I don't think any other card has. Also, it's non-terminal, so never screws up the rest of your hand, and you can still get rid of the early estates with it. I still think this is too much.

Moria: fair enough. I think it's too much, but I've not played with it.

Dead Marshes: I think this should be an attack card, only noticed now that it's only an action.

Saruman: Those are only occasional cards, I think, which limits this card too much. With exceptions, I barely ever buy non-standard Treasure and Victory cards. Also, how often do you want to get rid of a victory card you purchased and get money in return? I usually only buy victory cards at the end, and then I want to keep them because, well, it's the end of the game.

Wormtongue: still only affects one player. There's a reason all of the other attack cards attack everyone instead of just one person.

Denethor: upping the cost is definitely necessary.

Uruk Hai: I can't either. My bad.

Nazgul: Make it something that doesn't target only one specific player.



 
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Alessandro Maggi
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calebhand wrote:
Re: Mount Doom- I see what you're saying. I think upping the cost to 4 would help this. Do you have a different suggestion for it instead?

Shouldn't it be an attack? It's actually "forcing" trashing on other players. I think it's hard to balance because its effect can be either good or bad for each player depending on game state.
Can you share a few thoughts about how you designed this card?

calebhand wrote:
Re: Grima Wormtongue- What about if it had a cost cap like a card up to 6 or 7 cost?

The target issue remains. Also I'd rather limit the card acquisition to non-Victory cards instead of cost.

calebhand wrote:
Re: Uruk Hai- I can't think of the card you're thinking is the same. There are some that let you discard cards for more actions or buys.

Maybe he found it similar to Conspirator? I'd say they're different enough though they feel similar in the additional bonus trigger.

calebhand wrote:
Re: Nazgul- I don't think the looking through the cards takes that long. I do see what you're saying about targeting, and I'll take that under advisement. Any suggestions for it?

I don't think there's any solution apart from designing cards that do not let players target one specific player. If you want to keep the effect you should try to balance out the same effect for all players (e.g. you could make everyone choose which card to trash introducing restriction, such as cost 3 or more, non-VP or non-Treasure, etc...).
 
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Caleb Hand
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Re: Mount Doom- I see what you're saying. I think I'll change it to gain a Silver, or perhaps gain a Silver or Duchy on their Fellowship Mat

Re: Isengard- By non-terminal, you mean because you get +1 Action? So what about just removing that part and leaving it +2 Buys (which I don't see as a very powerful quality) and the trashing part?

Re: Moria- I added "If you have no cards in your hand after you play this card, trash this card."

Re: Dead Marshes:- I missed that and have now added Attack.

Re: Saruman- How about then making it a Treasure or Action card instead of just Treasure?

Re: Wormtongue- What about allowing keeping the one target gets a card taken away, but every opponent gains a card 1 less than the taken card? And/or make it a non-Victory card.

Re: Denethor- It now reads "32. Denethor
Action-Duration
Cost: 5
+1 Coin; Until your next turn, when an opponent gains a card, you may gain the same card if you trash a card from your hand."

Re: Nazgul- I've made it less target player specific and increased the cost to reflect that. It reads "36. Nazgul
Action-Attack
Cost: 6
You may look at each opponent’s cards on their Fellowship Mat and choose one non-Victory card to trash from each opponent. If no opponent has cards on their Fellowship Mat, you may gain a card costing up to 5 instead."

Btw, what do people think about the Fellowship Mat concept?

Caleb
 
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I don't get the wording on the Shire?
Combination makes me think:
estate 1 and copper 1
estate 1 and copper 2
....
estate 1 and copper 7
estate 2 and copper 1
....
estate 3 and copper 7

for a total of 21 points starting, making the game degenerate into Shire and estate rush, followed by coppers, as they will clearly be the only thing that matters in determining the outcome of this very short three pile game?
 
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Caleb Hand
United States
Londonderry
NH
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My intention for The Shire is that for each set of Estate/Copper you have, it is worth 1VP. That means with a starting hand, it's worth 3VP. If you buy more Estates, it will immediately be worth more. However, since people like to trash Copper and sometimes Estates too, this would be a reason not to.

I thought there was a Victory card out there that had something similar with wording along the lines of "Worth 2VP for every set of 1 Estate, 1 Duchy, and 1 Province." I can't seem to find that one though, so maybe it was a fan expansion card.

Any suggestions on how to make the wording more clear?

Caleb
 
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Jack Rudd
England
Bideford
Devon
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calebhand wrote:

Any suggestions on how to make the wording more clear?

The "William Shakespeare" card from Through The Ages is your friend. "Worth 1 VP for each Copper-Estate pair you have."
 
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Caleb Hand
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I like your wording and I've come up with two other options.

Worth 1 Victory for every pair of Estate and Copper in your deck. (i.e. Worth 3VP in a deck with 3 Estates and 7 Copper)

At the end of the game, count the number of Estates in your deck. Then count the number of Copper in your deck. This card is worth the lower amount in Victory points. (i.e. Worth 3VP in a deck with 3 Estates and 7 Copper)


Which is the best way to word it?
 
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Mike Miller

Columbus
Ohio
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Columbus, OH's best all '90s rock cover act: facebook.com/oddjobpolicy
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The 'pairing' language is all wrong. Use the 'lower of' language. You will confuse Cribbage players to no end if you use 'pair'.
 
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