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Subject: Officer Nelson ambiguity rss

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Milan Mašát
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I really hope that there would not be much cards like "Officer Nelson".
Text:
NPC phase: Wound each operative in the same room as "Officer Nelson" and increase the alarm dial by 1.

So is the alarm dial increased even without operatives present? It seems that way from the card.
If he would be at the entry point the game would be pretty short...

Or is the presence of operative(s) condition for increasing the alarm dial?

I really want to see cards written in more friendly way even for no-native speakers. (in this case reversed order would be clear - increase dial, then wound anybody...)
 
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David desJardins
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Vodnyk wrote:
I really want to see cards written in more friendly way even for no-native speakers.


I think it's hard to predict what a non-native speaker will find clear or unclear. In English, it's absolutely clear, there's only only way to parse the sentence.
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Milan Mašát
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Agreed. It is clear to me. The alarm is raised each turn if operatives are present or not.

Also hard to judge a card when the game isn't even out yet. Your assumption on how he works upon placing him in the first space is not correct either.


Well the rules about alarm and proximity are out, so if operatives are not lucky enough to have some item to kill Nelson in hand from the start draw, the proximity dial will go up pretty fast from the very beginning.

Quote:
I think it's hard to predict what a non-native speaker will find clear or unclear.

Do not put two subsequent actions into one sentence if first action could fail. But you are right, probably I just over-think this one.

PS: thanks both for the answer. I thought it will be this way although was not 100% sure.
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David desJardins
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
At least wait until the full rules are out.


What kind of a site would this be if we waited to judge a game until reading the rules?
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Andy Mills
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It's pretty clear from the rules that Officer Nelson won't show up until a particular room is revealed that puts him in the complex. So you won't have to deal with him from the start unless that's the first room that's revealed.

Also, in English, 'and' is an unconditional conjunction, as opposed to 'after' or 'when' or 'then'.
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Milan Mašát
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manydills wrote:
It's pretty clear from the rules that Officer Nelson won't show up until a particular room is revealed that puts him in the complex. So you won't have to deal with him from the start unless that's the first room that's revealed.

That was my idea, that when you reveal him in the first room, you can shuffle the cards again.

manydills wrote:
Also, in English, 'and' is an unconditional conjunction, as opposed to 'after' or 'when' or 'then'.

I see, I just do not like that:"I will fly to USA and visit national park."
Is clearly: I will visit a national park in Europe. Because I will probably never get to USA and "and" is unconditional. In short: I do not like mixing two effect in one sentence if one can easily fail.
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Enon Sci
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I've been thinking about Officer Nelson again after reading the rules, and I have to admit I don't particularly like him (or what he represents). Is there any way, any way at all, to deal with officer Nelson without incurring injury? Unless you have BOTH the means to see into adjacent rooms *AND* clear NPC in adjacent rooms, you won't be able to deal with him in a fast enough fashion. I mean, if one only gets to resolve a single action in a turn, it's obvious one would't be able to move and fire fast enough to avoid the NPC phase wound.

So, this tell me that cooperative play will be emphasized in the beginning rounds of the game -- no single player will have the means to both detect and neutralize threats in upcoming rooms (or, at the least, the probability is low). I'm only left to wonder at what point the "every man for himself" impulse will kick in.

From the very first DF acquisition the race will be on; yet players will have to play nice for several rounds to survive the hazards of the complex. I'm liking the conflict implicit in this arrangement.

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Chris J Davis
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Anarchosyn wrote:
I've been thinking about Officer Nelson again after reading the rules, and I have to admit I don't particularly like him (or what he represents). Is there any way, any way at all, to deal with officer Nelson without incurring injury? Unless you have BOTH the means to see into adjacent rooms *AND* clear NPC in adjacent rooms, you won't be able to deal with him in a fast enough fashion. I mean, if one only gets to resolve a single action in a turn, it's obvious one would't be able to move and fire fast enough to avoid the NPC phase wound.

So, this tell me that cooperative play will be emphasized in the beginning rounds of the game -- no single player will have the means to both detect and neutralize threats in upcoming rooms (or, at the least, the probability is low). I'm only left to wonder at what point the "every man for himself" impulse will kick in.

From the very first DF acquisition the race will be on; yet players will have to play nice for several rounds to survive the hazards of the complex. I'm liking the conflict implicit in this arrangement.



It seems that at least *some* of the item cards allow you to play more than one action card in a turn. So maybe there is some kind of "motion sensor" item that lets you detect an NPC and play a weapon immediately after, or something.
 
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Enon Sci
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bleached_lizard wrote:

It seems that at least *some* of the item cards allow you to play more than one action card in a turn. So maybe there is some kind of "motion sensor" item that lets you detect an NPC and play a weapon immediately after, or something.


Does it? I certainly hope so, but I haven't seen a card in any of the previews that would do that ('course, we've only seen a tiny fraction and I could be forgetting or misremembering a few we have seen).

Even still, it seems fitting that a game set in the Android universe would explore themes of ethical ambiguity. Perhaps my confusion as to whether this is supposed to play cooperatively or antagonistically is Infiltration's way of "gaming" in this struggle (i.e. on the surface the game's victory conditions make it clear: only one person is going to win, but the hazards to -- and limited means of -- an individual agent demand at least a modicum of cooperative play. I mean, you are all thematically on the same team, after all, or have I been thinking about Rex far too much? ).
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Tomas Inguanzo
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Anarchosyn wrote:
I've been thinking about Officer Nelson again after reading the rules, and I have to admit I don't particularly like him (or what he represents). Is there any way, any way at all, to deal with officer Nelson without incurring injury? Unless you have BOTH the means to see into adjacent rooms *AND* clear NPC in adjacent rooms, you won't be able to deal with him in a fast enough fashion. I mean, if one only gets to resolve a single action in a turn, it's obvious one would't be able to move and fire fast enough to avoid the NPC phase wound.


There's no such thing as Perfect Play in a press-your-luck game. It's a gamble to be the first to enter a room. On the one hand, you have the first opportunity to grab any goodies. On the other hand... is Officer Nelson. It's like the joke: The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 
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Enon Sci
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hrhtomas wrote:

There's no such thing as Perfect Play in a press-your-luck game. It's a gamble to be the first to enter a room. On the one hand, you have the first opportunity to grab any goodies. On the other hand... is Officer Nelson. It's like the joke: The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.


True, but my point was that this game might not be a "everybody for themselves" dash from the beginning, but open with some limited (and hesitant) co-op based on the points I cited above. Much like how Rex, if played with Betrayals, allows alliances that could end with a dagger in the back, perhaps a simplified form of that "ignoble band of thieves" mentality will be at play here.

I could be wrong, we still don't know the general distribution of card effects, but it might play out with more subtly than we've envisioned (i.e. due to the lack of a "perfect play" scenario, the players compensate for their disadvantages by pooling their collective resources: Player A has a "what's in the next room" type of scanner, Player B has a grenade launcher that can launch into adjacent rooms, Player C has a security system deactivation device, etc).



 
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Tomas Inguanzo
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Of course all this is contingent on whether or not you want to kill Officer Nelson. If you have the most tokens and/or are closest to the exit, you might want to keep him in play to speed up the timer and slow down your opponents.
 
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Brendan Power
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bleached_lizard wrote:

It seems that at least *some* of the item cards allow you to play more than one action card in a turn. So maybe there is some kind of "motion sensor" item that lets you detect an NPC and play a weapon immediately after, or something.


This is exactly correct - there is, in fact, a motion sensor card that moves you forward one room, and if an NPC or lab worker is present, allows you to play an action or item card.
 
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Brendan Power
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Anarchosyn wrote:
I've been thinking about Officer Nelson again after reading the rules, and I have to admit I don't particularly like him (or what he represents). Is there any way, any way at all, to deal with officer Nelson without incurring injury? Unless you have BOTH the means to see into adjacent rooms *AND* clear NPC in adjacent rooms, you won't be able to deal with him in a fast enough fashion. I mean, if one only gets to resolve a single action in a turn, it's obvious one would't be able to move and fire fast enough to avoid the NPC phase wound.


If you enter one of the security rooms first, you're likely to be hurt. There are cards that permit you to act against NPCs in adjacent rooms (gauss pistol, semtex, etc), cards that prevent you from triggering 'enter' effects when you use them (like jump jets), and methods to heal yourself using either room or item effects. In practice, this really wasn't an issue at all and only serves to up the tension; besides, there are also cards that lower (or raise!) the alarm level and proximity meter.
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He was in the starting room in our first game. It separated us into the haves and the not-half-deads as two stayed to interface and download while the rest got the heck out of there. Also kept the alarm dial high. Things got kinda hairy.
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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Vodnyk wrote:

I see, I just do not like that:"I will fly to USA and visit national park."
Is clearly: I will visit a national park in Europe. Because I will probably never get to USA and "and" is unconditional. In short: I do not like mixing two effect in one sentence if one can easily fail.


Not a good comparison - that is a statement of intent, not a command. If I said "give me 3 apples and give me 2 oranges" and you did not have any apples, you would still give me 2 oranges.

Well, you might say "screw you, these are my oranges" but you would understand that I would be expecting the oranges, even though there were no apples.
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