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Subject: Rules questions and comments after one play... rss

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Adrian Montoya
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Just got this game and Vendimia from Aldebaran Games in Chile.

After one play, I have some questions and comments that I'd like to address before I play again.

#1 - Our scores in a 3 player game were 199, 266 and 326.
These scores seemed a little high since the score track only goes to 100 and there are no "100 point" tokens to indicate that you've lapped around the score track.
Does this seem right?

#2 - The extra 2 workers you can get cost 2 pesos each, but later in the game you have so much money, the cost seems trivial.
Half way through the game, you really never care about the 2/4 peso cost and never go back to the "new worker" space on the board.
Does this seem right?

#3 - Near the end of the game, all three of us were on the market space.
Two of us left to go black market and the third player stayed.
Since you can keep using the market until you pass or leave to the black market, that player kept selling and selling and went through all the remaining market stall cards until he hit the third permanent event and triggered the endgame.
Thus, two players were locked out of getting any good sales and had no chance to catch the leader, who just sat there scoring money unhindered.
This wasn't a satisfactory endgame and perhaps needs houseruling.
What are your thoughts?

#4 - Not all of the events are described in the rulebook.
Is there a reason for this?

#5 - To be clear, you just need to own a development card for it to activate during you farm's activation, correct?
You don't need to place a worker on the card or anything?

#6 - I know one worker can harvest 1 or 2 tiles with the second tile orthogonally adjacent.
Is that second tile then used?
Or, can 2 workers on 2 adjacent tiles harvest 4 crops, and so on?

#7 - Does the development card that allows 3 crop tiles to be harvested by 1 worker mean any three adjacent, like in a line, or does the worker have to be touching the other 2 tiles directly?

#8 - To be clear, a barnyard has 2 or 3 spaces.
Each space can hold one animal cube.
You can place different kinds of animals in the same barnyard.
Correct?

#9 - Clothing and Cakes have strange values that are only within 2 pesos of each other, $47 and $49.
Is there a reason for this, does it work out mathematically or something?

#10 - The development card that allows a free re-roll once per turn is severely underpowered.
The Shoe die is roughly a 33% chance (for a 2) or a 66% chance (for a 1), and the Spider die is roughly a 17% chance (for a 3), a 33% chance (for a 2) or 50% chance (for a 1).
The odds are very low for getting higher values, even with the re-roll.
It makes the card less attractive than other cards and maybe needs to be a bit more powerful?

#11 - The rightmost 2 market spaces on the board are faded out quite a bit and since there appears to be things on the board indicating a 5-6 player expansion, we thought maybe you were only supposed to put out 4 market stall cards at a time.
Do you place out 6 market stall cards, regardless of the number of players?

Finally, my copy is missing 2 orange cubes for the turn order and score tracks.

Also, the art is fine and everything looks good enough, but the crop tiles, market stall cards and development cards are not made of sturdy thick cardboard, but instead are printed on ultra-thin cardstock.
These will not hold up to repeated, long term play.

I hope an expansion will address the Seasons Track, Water Mill, Animal Pagent and Rodeo.
I'm ready to house-rule these if no expansion is coming.

I will play again after getting these questions answered.
Then I will comment, rate and review this game.
So far, I have enjoyed my one play!

Thanks for reading!
 
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William Crispin
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In a similar situation. My reading of the rules left me a little confused still.
 
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Aldebaran Games
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Hi, thanks for your interest in Mi Tierra. About your questions:


#1 - Our scores in a 3 player game were 199, 266 and 326.
These scores seemed a little high since the score track only goes to 100 and there are no "100 point" tokens to indicate that you've lapped around the score track.
Does this seem right?

In most of the tests phase and our plays when the games was published the scores rarely were over 150, but most games were with 4 players.
We intended to make 100 tokens if we ever publish the expansion.



#2 - The extra 2 workers you can get cost 2 pesos each, but later in the game you have so much money, the cost seems trivial.
Half way through the game, you really never care about the 2/4 peso cost and never go back to the "new worker" space on the board.
Does this seem right?

The game is divided in two. At first you will phase poverty and will try to develop, and therefore the workers will be more difficult to keep. Later in the game the objective is to produce high value products. At this point usually the cost of the worker won’t be so significant. This wanted to simulate what happens in real business.


#3 - Near the end of the game, all three of us were on the market space.
Two of us left to go black market and the third player stayed.
Since you can keep using the market until you pass or leave to the black market, that player kept selling and selling and went through all the remaining market stall cards until he hit the third permanent event and triggered the endgame.
Thus, two players were locked out of getting any good sales and had no chance to catch the leader, who just sat there scoring money unhindered.
This wasn't a satisfactory endgame and perhaps needs houseruling.
What are your thoughts?


You are right, there is a bug there. To solve it you have to add this variant:
If there are several worker he will be able to sell until the other workers leave or go to the black market. If a player remains alone in the market he will only be able to sell from only one market per worker. In other words if there is the case that there is more than one worker from the same player this player will be able to sell only one more time with each worker in the market.


#4 - Not all of the events are described in the rulebook.
Is there a reason for this?

In the rulebook we included the description of the “kind” of events we thought were difficult to figure out. If you have a doubt with any other please tell us and we will answer your questions as soon as possible.



#5 - To be clear, you just need to own a development card for it to activate during you farm's activation, correct?
You don't need to place a worker on the card or anything?

The final rules of the game were simplified trying to reach the Chilean player which even today haven’t played games more advanced than risk. But in many test some of the buildings needed to be activated, and that’s the way we have been playing it. Those buildings are: I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII-XII-XIII-XIV - those that let you reproduce your animal, get some products from animals or transform one product into another. (Almost everyone with an arrow except from “Studies” and “Tractor”)
Other variant ask that every development has to be activated for it to work.



#6 - I know one worker can harvest 1 or 2 tiles with the second tile orthogonally adjacent.
Is that second tile then used?
Or, can 2 workers on 2 adjacent tiles harvest 4 crops, and so on?

The crop will be considered used - every crop can be activated by only one worker per round.



#7 - Does the development card that allows 3 crop tiles to be harvested by 1 worker mean any three adjacent, like in a line, or does the worker have to be touching the other 2 tiles directly?
You have to put a worker in any of the 3 crops. The 3 crops need to be adjacent either forming an L or a line. If you have 3 corps in line one besides the other your worker could be in the first one and the second and third will be activated.


#8 - To be clear, a barnyard has 2 or 3 spaces.
Each space can hold one animal cube.
You can place different kinds of animals in the same barnyard.
Correct?

No – In each barnyard there must be only one kind of animal.


#9 - Clothing and Cakes have strange values that are only within 2 pesos of each other, $47 and $49.
Is there a reason for this, does it work out mathematically or something?

Yes – A very important and time consuming part of the design of Mi Tierra were watching the designers sited on a table discussing and calculating numbers


#10 - The development card that allows a free re-roll once per turn is severely underpowered.
The Shoe die is roughly a 33% chance (for a 2) or a 66% chance (for a 1), and the Spider die is roughly a 17% chance (for a 3), a 33% chance (for a 2) or 50% chance (for a 1).
The odds are very low for getting higher values, even with the re-roll.
It makes the card less attractive than other cards and maybe needs to be a bit more powerful?

That’s why in the variant were you need to activate the developments this card doesn’t need t be activated.
I asked the designer and he suggested that if you wanted to be more attractive you could use it to flip the dice instead of rerolling it.


#11 - The rightmost 2 market spaces on the board are faded out quite a bit and since there appears to be things on the board indicating a 5-6 player expansion, we thought maybe you were only supposed to put out 4 market stall cards at a time.
Do you place out 6 market stall cards, regardless of the number of players?

In fact they are faded for that reason. At is says at the bottom of page 4: “Refill the Established Markets until there are as many markets in that area as players”.



Finally, my copy is missing 2 orange cubes for the turn order and score tracks.
Yes, those 2 cubes are a headache. The story is that the orange player was supposed to be yellow. When we realized that they were the same color as the hens (in the testing’s we used other kinds of markers that didn’t get confused) we told the provider to change the color of the workers and two yellow cubes to orange. When the games arrived all of them came with only yellow cubes. We counted and each copy has 2 hens more and 2 orange cubes missing. We are so sorry about that.



Also, the art is fine and everything looks good enough, but the crop tiles, market stall cards and development cards are not made of sturdy thick cardboard, but instead are printed on ultra-thin cardstock.
These will not hold up to repeated, long term play.

I hope an expansion will address the Seasons Track, Water Mill, Animal Pagent and Rodeo.
I'm ready to house-rule these if no expansion is coming.


The expansion won’t be published soon, but as we have been ask a lot we will publish most of the rules here soon so almost everything could be playedwith the base game and some bits.


I will play again after getting these questions answered.
Then I will comment, rate and review this game .
So far, I have enjoyed my one play!

Thanks for reading!



Glad you enjoyed the game.

PS: Sorry if there were any mistakes with my english
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Adrian Montoya
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Aldebaran Games wrote:
Hi, thanks for your interest in Mi Tierra. About your questions:

#1 - Our scores in a 3 player game were 199, 266 and 326.
These scores seemed a little high since the score track only goes to 100 and there are no "100 point" tokens to indicate that you've lapped around the score track.
Does this seem right?

In most of the tests phase and our plays when the games was published the scores rarely were over 150, but most games were with 4 players.
We intended to make 100 tokens if we ever publish the expansion.

Ok, good to know, I'd include at least 8, so that each player could go over 200.
I'd wager our scores were a little high due to the bug we had with the market.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#2 - The extra 2 workers you can get cost 2 pesos each, but later in the game you have so much money, the cost seems trivial.
Half way through the game, you really never care about the 2/4 peso cost and never go back to the "new worker" space on the board.
Does this seem right?

The game is divided in two. At first you will phase poverty and will try to develop, and therefore the workers will be more difficult to keep. Later in the game the objective is to produce high value products. At this point usually the cost of the worker won’t be so significant. This wanted to simulate what happens in real business.

While it did play out exactly as you just described, it just seemed fairly trivial for the second half of the game.
It would be nice to have some options here, like another worker or 2, or maybe some justified increased wages as the game progresses.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#3 - Near the end of the game, all three of us were on the market space.
Two of us left to go black market and the third player stayed.
Since you can keep using the market until you pass or leave to the black market, that player kept selling and selling and went through all the remaining market stall cards until he hit the third permanent event and triggered the endgame.
Thus, two players were locked out of getting any good sales and had no chance to catch the leader, who just sat there scoring money unhindered.
This wasn't a satisfactory endgame and perhaps needs houseruling.
What are your thoughts?

You are right, there is a bug there. To solve it you have to add this variant:
If there are several worker he will be able to sell until the other workers leave or go to the black market. If a player remains alone in the market he will only be able to sell from only one market per worker. In other words if there is the case that there is more than one worker from the same player this player will be able to sell only one more time with each worker in the market.

We agreed on nearly the exact same remedy.
Although, this does make going to market more chancey, as you could wind up by yourself and only get one transaction.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#4 - Not all of the events are described in the rulebook.
Is there a reason for this?

In the rulebook we included the description of the “kind” of events we thought were difficult to figure out. If you have a doubt with any other please tell us and we will answer your questions as soon as possible.

I'd have to go through them to be sure, but I was just trying to be thourough.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#5 - To be clear, you just need to own a development card for it to activate during you farm's activation, correct?
You don't need to place a worker on the card or anything?

The final rules of the game were simplified trying to reach the Chilean player which even today haven’t played games more advanced than risk. But in many test some of the buildings needed to be activated, and that’s the way we have been playing it. Those buildings are: I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII-XII-XIII-XIV - those that let you reproduce your animal, get some products from animals or transform one product into another. (Almost everyone with an arrow except from “Studies” and “Tractor”)
Other variant ask that every development has to be activated for it to work.

Ok, that sounds interesting, but costly.
So, you would need one worker per development to use them?
Maybe some rules would be needed, like how the workers can harvest 2 crop tiles, or how you place workers to get the development tiles (between 2 or at the center of all 4)...

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#6 - I know one worker can harvest 1 or 2 tiles with the second tile orthogonally adjacent.
Is that second tile then used?
Or, can 2 workers on 2 adjacent tiles harvest 4 crops, and so on?

The crop will be considered used - every crop can be activated by only one worker per round.

Ah, I see, that changes things a bit.
So, we were overharvesting a little, which also would have boosted our scores.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#7 - Does the development card that allows 3 crop tiles to be harvested by 1 worker mean any three adjacent, like in a line, or does the worker have to be touching the other 2 tiles directly?
You have to put a worker in any of the 3 crops. The 3 crops need to be adjacent either forming an L or a line. If you have 3 corps in line one besides the other your worker could be in the first one and the second and third will be activated.

Ok, that clears that up and makes that development easier to explain.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#8 - To be clear, a barnyard has 2 or 3 spaces.
Each space can hold one animal cube.
You can place different kinds of animals in the same barnyard.
Correct?

No – In each barnyard there must be only one kind of animal.

Yikes!...That means we were playing that wrong!
That makes it much harder to mix your animal stratagies.
That mistake also would have boosted our scores a little.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#9 - Clothing and Cakes have strange values that are only within 2 pesos of each other, $47 and $49.
Is there a reason for this, does it work out mathematically or something?

Yes – A very important and time consuming part of the design of Mi Tierra were watching the designers sited on a table discussing and calculating numbers

Alright, but it would have been nice to have another endgame product or two, just to expand the long term planning a bit.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#10 - The development card that allows a free re-roll once per turn is severely underpowered.
The Shoe die is roughly a 33% chance (for a 2) or a 66% chance (for a 1), and the Spider die is roughly a 17% chance (for a 3), a 33% chance (for a 2) or 50% chance (for a 1).
The odds are very low for getting higher values, even with the re-roll.
It makes the card less attractive than other cards and maybe needs to be a bit more powerful?

That’s why in the variant were you need to activate the developments this card doesn’t need to be activated.
I asked the designer and he suggested that if you wanted it to be more attractive you could use it to flip the dice instead of rerolling it.

Fair enough, although the "flip" variant is a little better, it's still not a compelling development tile.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
#11 - The rightmost 2 market spaces on the board are faded out quite a bit and since there appears to be things on the board indicating a 5-6 player expansion, we thought maybe you were only supposed to put out 4 market stall cards at a time.
Do you place out 6 market stall cards, regardless of the number of players?

In fact they are faded for that reason. At is says at the bottom of page 4: “Refill the Established Markets until there are as many markets in that area as players”.

So, in a 3-player game, we should have only put out 3 market stalls at time?
We were playing with 4, so maybe that skewed things a little.

Aldebaran Games wrote:
Finally, my copy is missing 2 orange cubes for the turn order and score tracks.
Yes, those 2 cubes are a headache. The story is that the orange player was supposed to be yellow. When we realized that they were the same color as the hens (in the testing’s we used other kinds of markers that didn’t get confused) we told the provider to change the color of the workers and two yellow cubes to orange. When the games arrived all of them came with only yellow cubes. We counted and each copy has 2 hens more and 2 orange cubes missing. We are so sorry about that.

No problem!
I will count my cubes to be sure, then I will paint 2 yellow ones "orange"!

Aldebaran Games wrote:
Also, the art is fine and everything looks good enough, but the crop tiles, market stall cards and development cards are not made of sturdy thick cardboard, but instead are printed on ultra-thin cardstock.
These will not hold up to repeated, long term play.
I hope an expansion will address the Seasons Track, Water Mill, Animal Pagent and Rodeo.
I'm ready to house-rule these if no expansion is coming.

The expansion won’t be published soon, but as we have been ask a lot we will publish most of the rules here soon so almost everything could be playedwith the base game and some bits.

That would be nice to see.
I'd like to compare what I've been cooking up with your actual rules.
If you aren't going to do the expansion the normal way, maybe you could do a "print-and-play"?

Aldebaran Games wrote:
I will play again after getting these questions answered.
Then I will comment, rate and review this game .
So far, I have enjoyed my one play!
Thanks for reading!

Glad you enjoyed the game.

PS: Sorry if there were any mistakes with my english

I will enjoy it even more now that things are cleared up for me!
And, with a few minor house-rules and variants, this game should be keeper for my group!
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Dan (NE2)
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Yldarr wrote:
#3 - Near the end of the game, all three of us were on the market space.
Two of us left to go black market and the third player stayed.
Since you can keep using the market until you pass or leave to the black market, that player kept selling and selling and went through all the remaining market stall cards until he hit the third permanent event and triggered the endgame.
Thus, two players were locked out of getting any good sales and had no chance to catch the leader, who just sat there scoring money unhindered.
This wasn't a satisfactory endgame and perhaps needs houseruling.
What are your thoughts?

It was my understanding of the rules that you can only use the market twice, and if you do so, you cannot use the black market.

"Once every workers have sold for the first time a second sale round begins, starting with the worker in the first position and so on."

There is no indication of a third round, since I interpreted the closing "and so on" to refer to the rest of the workers at the market. This seemed to be a good way to play, and a good house rule if I in fact interpreted it incorrectly.
 
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