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Subject: Preferred Method of Kingdom Deck Selection? rss

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Benjamin Piehler
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Kansas City
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Hello there!

I recently learned how to play Dominion on my phone; it didn't take long for me to decide to order it. My copy arrived today, it is already a hit with my buddies. I've tried a few of the kingdoms decks that were suggested in the rule book as well as using the randomized cards. I've heard some also like to take turns drafting cards, or design their own kingdom decks.

What method of choosing kingdom cards do most people use? What method do the pros use? Most importantly, what is your favorite, and why? Thanks, and have a good one!
 
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Rob Stokes
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I use Android app Dominion Shuffle.

1, Its free.

2, You can choose which expainions to play.

3, You can take individual stacks out if you dont like them or find they break the game.

Hope this helps.
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Ido Abelman
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I dislike any drafting/veto methods. Using those, players will often declare a card to be overpowered/underpowered/unfun after just one or two plays and then never play with the card again. I prefer full random, because it means players have to look for ways to use "underpowered" cards or to counter "overpowered" cards and then often discover they weren't that OP or UP at all.
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Nick Fisk
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Rob RN wrote:
I use Android app Dominion Shuffle.

1, Its free.

2, You can choose which expainions to play.

3, You can take individual stacks out if you dont like them or find they break the game.

Hope this helps.


Yep.

Or if you don't have a smartphone, try this:

http://www.hiwiller.com/dominion/



N.

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James Newton
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I always start fully random using an iPhone randomiser app (no card is absolutely banned) - although we often limit to selected expansions to give the game more of the feel of those expansions. This is especially so with a relatively new expansion.

However when playing multiple games within a session, we sometimes re-randomise for each game, and sometimes we do the thing where each player selects one kingdom pile to replace, keeping the other 6 or 7 piles the same. And sometimes we agree to play the same set again to explore the different strategy options available within the set.
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Dave Daley
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CBpegasus wrote:
I dislike any drafting/veto methods. Using those, players will often declare a card to be overpowered/underpowered/unfun after just one or two plays and then never play with the card again. I prefer full random, because it means players have to look for ways to use "underpowered" cards or to counter "overpowered" cards and then often discover they weren't that OP or UP at all.

I disagree with this, and quite enjoy the "Veto" method. There are many cards in Dominion, and many more combinations in Dominion, that make for very unenjoyable games (yes, I'm looking at YOU Village/Minion).

I agree with you that people will veto some cards over and over, but often enough, it comes to where you have two or three cards that you would like to veto, and then you definitely end up playing with 2 of the 3. So it's not that you NEVER play with them, it's more like you LIMIT the number of times you have to play with them.

Of course, to each his own. We often don't play "veto", as about half our groups don't like the veto method. I'm ok with that too, but prefer the option to veto.
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Glenn D
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Rob RN wrote:
I use Android app Dominion Shuffle.

1, Its free.

2, You can choose which expainions to play.

3, You can take individual stacks out if you dont like them or find they break the game.

Hope this helps.


I use the same randomizer...it works fabulously. I love being able to lock out specific cards at times.
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Ernest Chua
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One method my friends and I use is for the first game to be totally random (randomiser cards). If we want to immediately play again, we let everyone but the winner choose one card to take out and replace those with random cards. That way, we have some variation and don't have to spend time getting our heads around all new cards (we don't play it that often) yet have some interest and difference from game to game.
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mich
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Hi,

guessing from Your microbadge You might want to take a look at this: http://www.poeppelkiste.de/.
On the lower left You´ll find a dominion set- generator and a set-library. You can choose from any available expansions and add-ons and You are able to cancel certain cards or take them definetly in Your set. The cards are unfortunately named only in German but the pictures probably do the job as well.

Cheers
stoldti

btw: I like the word-name-combo in Your nick. :)

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Dave Green
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We used to play full random, but we to "Veto Method" because it's friendlier. Veto method gives us faster-paced games, more economic buildup, and less frustrating screwage. It also adds a balancing mechanism, whereby if Player 1 knows that Player 2 is abnormally good with a particular card, Player 1 can simply take it off the table and even the field a little.

The only downside is that we've all gotten too used to it, and now we're out of practice at dealing with all the cards we veto most frequently.
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Ancestral Hamster
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My regular opponent has a smart phone and has a Dominion app, and that's how we usually generate a kingdom. We usually play it straight, but after two play-throughs, if we find it too unbalanced (e.g. we only use certain cards) we'll adjust it. What we like is having a balanced kingdom which forces decision making, not one where there is just one optimum solution.

Occasionally, we play one of my theme decks, and we tinker with them until they have the right feel.

Unfortunately, we are restricted to two player games since no one else in the store is interested in playing except the manager, and he's working.
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Tom
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I usually divide up all the randomizer cards between the players (roughly equal piles), and then have people pick an equal amount of new kingdom cards. Easy enough.
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Brian Bennett
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I have the original and three expansions, Seaside, Intrigue and Hinterlands. My favorite method is to take the four randomizer decks and shuffle them up, draw the top ten for each game, no vetoes, no exceptions and play through the stack. The cards are discarded once they are used, this way we use every card once and only once. Granted, Some games are better than others, but that is the beauty of Dominion, every game is unique.
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Benjamin Piehler
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Thanks for the input, you've given me many new ideas on how to select kingdom decks. I'll probably give them all a shot and see what feels right. If anyone has any additional methods, I'd love to hear them.

I downloaded the randomizer on my phone, which is great because it is far more convenient to use than the randomizer cards. Thanks for the suggestion! I also feel it is a bit more random.

Which got me thinking; does anyone roll a d12 to determine their first two hands? (The app has this feature.) A roll of 1 gets you hands of 2 & 5 coppers, rolling 2-6 gets you hands of 3/4. 7-11 earns 4/3 while rolling a 12 earns 5/2.

 
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Mark Judd
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Bpiehler wrote:
...
Which got me thinking; does anyone roll a d12 to determine their first two hands? (The app has this feature.) A roll of 1 gets you hands of 2 & 5 coppers, rolling 2-6 gets you hands of 3/4. 7-11 earns 4/3 while rolling a 12 earns 5/2.


Predetermining your opening two hands will work with all expansions except Hinterlands. There are certain cards in Hinterlands that can affect what you draw for your 2nd hand and others that can affect what you draw for your 3rd hand.

Specifically:
Noble Brigand - When bought, all other players must reveal the top two cards of their deck and discard or possibly trash them. If bought by one of the earlier players in the first round, it will cause all successive players in that round to reshuffle their decks mid-draw after their first turn, possibly allowing them to draw whatever they bought in the first round for their second hand. Any players that have already had one turn before Noble Brigands was bought will likely have their decks reshuffled before their second turn, forcing them to wait a few more turns before their second buy gets shuffled into their deck.

Nomad Camp - If bought in the first hand, it will appear in the 2nd hand, thus allowing a potential 4/4, 4/5, 5/3, or 5/4 opening, and one of the original 10 cards (Copper/Estates) will likely remain in the draw pile for the 3rd hand.

Mandarin - If bought in the first hand, the second hand will also have 5 Coppers and the remaining 2 Coppers/3 Estates would remain in the draw pile for a future hand.

Embassy and Ill-Gotten Gains could also cause issues when using predetermined opening splits if everyone plans on immediately shuffling with their opening two buys. If bought in the first round, it would be easy to distribute the Silver or Curses, remembering that everyone gets to shuffle those into their decks for their third hand. But if bought during the second round, any successive players of that round would shuffle those cards into their decks while any earlier players would have to place those cards in their discard piles.
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kevin jung
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http://www.dominiondeck.com I love this website- lets you randomize and has many examples of Kingdom sets others have enjoyed.
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HenningK
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I always use the blue randomizer cards, shuffle them together and draw 10 - and that's it. In a session, I often don't reshuffle the used ones back in so we play 10 new kingdom cards every time.
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Matthew Cordeiro
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When we first got the game and each expansion, we'd play the recommended sets a few times. After that, it's drawn at random with all sets mixed together. We usually play a few games in a row, so any unused kingdom decks are left in the supply more time. For Alchemy cards, I'll set them aside as they're randomly drawn until I've drawn at least 3 of them. I've found that when only 1 or 2 are in the supply, they're rarely bought.
 
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I use the Android randomizer for the first game. When playing a series of games after each game we randomly remove one deck of Kingdom cards and allow the loser to remove another, and then add two more random cards. I've played with other folks' sets who insist on a new set of 10 cards every game, but I justfind that too time-consuming. I like having the overlap between sets so you can fine-tune a strategy or try something completely new.

We also use decide on Platinums and Colonies a little differently. According to the rules, the chances of using the P and C is equal to the percentage of Prosperity cards in the deck. I don't like this as it means they are never used without Prosperity cards and as more and more cards come out the chances of using Prosperity cards comes down. So the forumla I use it # of Prosperity cards + 1.

Brian
 
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Greg Pratt
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We have always used the blue bordered cards as our randomizers, with everything shuffled together.

Here's our process:
1. Pull 10 cards
2. If the 1st card pulled is a Prosperity card, add Colonies and Platinum
3. If any cards with potions in the cost show up add the potion stack
4. If the Young Witch and/or Black Market shows up, draw until a 2 or 3 cost card is pulled and add it as the 11th "Bane" stack
5. if Black Market shows up, shuffle the randomizers for all cards not picked for stacks to form the Black Market deck.

There are some cards that people dislike, but for us part of the game's charm is that you don't always get to try your favorite strategy and have to do something new sometimes.
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John Shore
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Here's my method:

Shuffle all blue cards, then deal one at a time.
If 3 cards already have the same cost set every other new one with that cost aside. (Games don't end up unbalanced as often.)

I also set aside the first 'potion required' card and only include it if at least one other shows up.

All set aside cards are returned to top of deck for the next game.

Colony/Platinum join if last card is from Prosperity or costs more than 5 or if most cards cost 5 or more. (Otherwise very few game have these fun cards.)

If playing Black Market, deal next 15 unseen, replace 'potion required' card as they come up if potions aren't already in the game.
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Aaron Cooper
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When I play with friends it is usually a group of four or six players and we use an interesting variation on vetoing that I think makes the game more enjoyable than purely random kingdom cards.

Each player is dealt a hand of the randomizer cards and then we go around the table selecting cards we want to add to the game. With three players, each chooses three cards. With four or five players, each chooses two cards. We fill the remaining spots with random cards (one for three players, two for four players) but we deal out the random cards first so our card choices can be based off the one or two random cards.

This method gives each player a chance to "veto" some of the cards in their hand that they don't want to play with or to choose cards that they think will be fun to play with. Going around the table and selecting one card at a time gives us an opportunity to choose cards that will add an interesting element to the existing cards.

When we play six players, we do a typical veto round where each player vetoes one of the 16 random kingdom cards.
 
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Benjamin Piehler
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Out of curiosity, when bigger Dominion tournaments are held, what method do they usually use for selection?
 
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Edward
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For the DominionStrategy championships last year, we held a contest where people submitted kingdom sets and we chose our favorites to be played in the final.
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Brent Mair
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Totally random. Setup is quick, complaining doesn't slow that down, although we don't complain.


I love the game including seeing some pretty obtuse Kingdom Sets.
 
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