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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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I am getting ready to start painting some of the units I have procured.

As these are 1/72 scale I am not going to go overboard on trying to get the detail to pop out too much. They should look just fine at the 3 foot level.

I am thinking to primer with white and use water based acrylic paints... Then seal with a mat spray.

[edit:
I try to use at least five different colors on my miniatures
Also, I am open to dipping if someone has images of dipped 1/72 miniatures]

Before I start researching the web... Does anyone have a recommendation or process for painting samurai?
Also, does anyone have a good reference for painting samurai armor?
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Ancestral Hamster
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StevenE wrote:
I am getting ready to start painting some of the units I have procured.

As these are 1/72 scale I am not going to go overboard on trying to get the detail to pop out too much. They should look just fine at the 3 foot level.

I am thinking to primer with white and use water based acrylic paints... Then seal with a mat spray.

[edit:
I try to use at least five different colors on my miniatures
Also, I am open to dipping if someone has images of dipped 1/72 miniatures]

Before I start researching the web... Does anyone have a recommendation or process for painting samurai?
Also, does anyone have a good reference for painting samurai armor?

With plastic figures one should first wash them with warm soapy water to remove the mold release spray, which is slightly oily and will keep both primer and paint from adhering properly.

My suggestion for painting samurai is prime black, drybrush gray, drybrush armor lacings the color you prefer, then detail. This process I used on my 28mm Clan War figures. It is a quick and dirty method, and if you go this route, you may want to use it only on rank and file.

As for dipping, I too am curious if it is suitable for 1/72.

As for color references, mine are the various Osprey Men-at-Arms series of books (usually by Stephen Turnbull). As such, I have not bothered with a web search. There is a website called SamuraiWiki that might have armor images, although I have not checked it for anything other than family mons. (I'm thinking about painting some of the Zvezda figures as the Ii Red Devils, so I searched for their mon.)
http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
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Keith Anderson
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From the description here these figures come in gray and then flags are attached to designate which side they are on. To keep that flexibility, do you intend to paint according to type without reference to two sides so that the figures can be mixed and matched? Or does that not really make sense when they are painted...I know less than little about the Japanese forces of this time period but am very interested in this game and beginning to learn.

I am no painter so if I pick these up, they will probably be forever gray.
Thanks
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David Boeren
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I think we need to wait until we see the scenarios so we can tell how much mixing there really is.
 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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Here is a viable link...

http://www.japanese-armor.com
(Links at the bottom of the page)

http://www.japanese-armor.com/japanese-armor.shtml
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chuckster williams
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I have never painted a model successfully in my life. Nor am I going to try with bad boy. But I may try to at least get rid of that "plastic look" by dry brushing them. However, what exactly is dry brushing (!) and how does one do it?
 
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David Boeren
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In basic terms...

1. Put some paint on the brush
2. Wipe almost all of it off on a paper towel or something
2.5 No, seriously, wipe it off some more
3. Now brush on the model, it's sort of like using a feather duster

Warning - do not do this with a good brush, it's very destructive to the bristles! Probably even worse if it's your first time doing it. People who paint will typically retire their brushes to drybrush duty once they're too worn out for normal use anymore.

What drybrushing does is apply a thin sketchy looking color to the raised surfaces of the model - as there is not enough paint left to get into the recesses. If you're doing multiple shades, the drybrushing will be with the lighter shades to simulate more light hitting the raised surfaces.

This is sort of the opposite of a wash, where you thin your paint/ink heavily with water. As you apply it it the thinness with allow the paint to settle into the recesses of the model. If you're doing multiple shades, the wash will be with the darker shades to simulate greater shadow in the recessed area. Washes don't hurt your brush, and you have more control over how much you want to apply. It's easy to dab some off before it dries (since it's mostly water) or add another coat later if you like. Downside is a longer drying time.

If you hear someone talking about "dipping", that's basically the laziest possible wash. You literally just dip the whole model in the wash solution and let it dry. Typically this is done with a solution that will also form a sealant - Minwax is a popular choice. But, it gives you a lot less control and not everyone likes the look - models can tend to come out looking a little oily.

Drybrushing seems to be particularly popular with the Warhammer crowd who favor highly contrasting paint jobs.
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Ancestral Hamster
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phuloivet wrote:
I have never painted a model successfully in my life. Nor am I going to try with bad boy. But I may try to at least get rid of that "plastic look" by dry brushing them. However, what exactly is dry brushing (!) and how does one do it?

Drybrushing is a technique where you use very little paint on the brush and move it lightly over the figure trying just to strike the higher details of the figure.

For example, if one was trying to paint a fur cloak, one you'd base coat it a medium grey, wash it with a dark grey or black to set the shadows, let dry fully [important step after washing], then drybrush with a light grey to highlight the upper parts of the fur where light would strike.

One can add extra steps by drybrushing successively lighter shades of the base color which would make the color gradation more natural. If planning on that, one could drybrush the washed figure heavily with the original base color (since the wash will have darkened the original base coat), trying to get complete coverage except for the deep recesses, then use the successively lighter shades. Each time you applied a lighter shade, you'd use less pressure since you'd want to leave some of the previous coat to show and retain the natural gradation.

In the case of my Q&D samurai process, I drybrush heavily with grey to bring out detail and provide highlights for any part of the figure that will remain black. Since the most common color for Japanese armor was black lacquer, the armor highlights are done!
The challenging part is drybrushing the lacing without messing up the armor beneath. It was hard enough on a 28mm figure, we shall see if it can be done on a 20mm!

Here's a nice link about drybrushing: http://www.how-to-paint-miniatures.com/miniature_painting_dr...

They also explain other techniques such as washing, so it is worth visiting that site.

A simpler suggestion for getting rid of the plastic look would be a sepia-toned wash over base white. Wash figures, prime white, then wash heavily with brown until the figure gets a nice aged ivory color. When the wash dries, seal with a matte coat.

@K.A. Based on the Turnbull & Osprey books that I own, the bulk of Japanese armies of the Sengoku period would have had black armor, usually with individual variations on lacing color. Higher ranking samurai retainers and daimyo might have multi-colored lacings instead of a single solid color. The color of clothing underneath would have been a matter of personal choice, so there was little uniformity. The Ii family was a rare one for insisting on red lacquered armor, and they provided their ashigaru and lower-ranking samurai with the red armor.

As for painting by type, if you mean in the sense that later European armies had certain colors for different service branches (like red trim for artillery and grenadiers, medium blue trim for line infantry, yellow or green trim for light infantry), that doesn't apply to samurai armies. Much like a medieval European army, there was rarely any attempt at regimentation.

So my current plans (without access to the game yet) are to split the box contents, making one side the Takeda clan (who will get any and all cavalry), and the other will be Ii clan (who will get the arquebusiers). If it turns out that gives me two armies all in red, I'll change the Ii to another clan, one that used black armor.

The simplest method would be painting everything in black armor and using the sashimono banners to designate sides as necessary.
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Keith Anderson
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Ancestral Hamster wrote:


@K.A. Based on the Turnbull & Osprey books that I own, the bulk of Japanese armies of the Sengoku period would have had black armor, usually with individual variations on lacing color. Higher ranking samurai retainers and daimyo might have multi-colored lacings instead of a single solid color. The color of clothing underneath would have been a matter of personal choice, so there was little uniformity. The Ii family was a rare one for insisting on red lacquered armor, and they provided their ashigaru and lower-ranking samurai with the red armor.

As for painting by type, if you mean in the sense that later European armies had certain colors for different service branches (like red trim for artillery and grenadiers, medium blue trim for line infantry, yellow or green trim for light infantry), that doesn't apply to samurai armies. Much like a medieval European army, there was rarely any attempt at regimentation.

So my current plans (without access to the game yet) are to split the box contents, making one side the Takeda clan (who will get any and all cavalry), and the other will be Ii clan (who will get the arquebusiers). If it turns out that gives me two armies all in red, I'll change the Ii to another clan, one that used black armor.

The simplest method would be painting everything in black armor and using the sashimono banners to designate sides as necessary.


Thanks, very informative. Seems that they can be painted without regard to which side they are on and let the banners do the work. This gives the most flexibility...ex. in one game the cavalry is split evenly, in another it is all on one side, then 2/3 to 1/3. The original listed scenarios may or may not need this flexibility but if the game is successful and results like the other C&C then more scenarios will quickly come including from fans. Looking at the other information on this topic, if I do get the game, perhaps I might just do enough painting to remove the plastic look.
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Matt Price
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The harder plastic from the Samurai Battles game should take your standard GW primer well as it seems very similar to the plastic GW makes.

But the softer more pliable plastic of their older pieces does not take GW primer well at all. I primered a bunch of plastic minis (after washing them to remove any releasing agent) and it started cracking and peeling almost immediately.

Can anyone recommend any brands of primer that are better for the softer plastics one often finds being used for these 1/72 scale minis?
 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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I like the Krylon brand for primering.

I am experimenting with Krylon camouflage tan. It adheres really well and I like how it looks when painting Earth tones.
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my eye
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mattprice wrote:
The harder plastic from the Samurai Battles game should take your standard GW primer well as it seems very similar to the plastic GW makes.

But the softer more pliable plastic of their older pieces does not take GW primer well at all. I primered a bunch of plastic minis (after washing them to remove any releasing agent) and it started cracking and peeling almost immediately.

Can anyone recommend any brands of primer that are better for the softer plastics one often finds being used for these 1/72 scale minis?


I've had good luck using Krylon Fusion as a primer. Made specifically for plastic. Usually use Flat Black or Satin Gray. As always, YMMV.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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I try to stick with flat and ultra-flat primers.
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Ancestral Hamster
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Found these two links at The Miniatures page which provide a great deal of info on the standards of several samurai clans. The first is very informative.
http://forums.samurai-archives.com/viewtopic.php?t=1638
http://www.interq.or.jp/red/yukimura/dt/gunki02.html


Original Thread at TMP http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=259379
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Bart Rachemoss
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StevenE wrote:
Also, does anyone have a good reference for painting samurai armor?

I just received a copy of Weapons & Fighting Techniques of the Samurai Warrior 1200 -- 1877 AD. It has a lot of color pictures and it would give you plenty of ideas for a variety of different color schemes. You can get a new copy for $3.00 plus shipping.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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How are the rest of you going about your painting?
I assembled my miniatures and then primed them... Cavalry included (which I think was a mistake)
I used white, black and tan primers.

The black primer is good if you're going to only use dark colors. I am finding I need to use two or more coats OD paint if using a bright color.

The white primer is good if you are going to be using more brighter colors. I found the opposite is true here... I needed to use two or more coats of paint when working with darker colors.

The tan primer seems to be giving me the best results. Only one coat of paint needed.

My choice of paint is water based acrylics that I can get at Michale's or Joann's craft stores. Easier to store and less cost... Maybe not as good results as Citidel or GW paints but then I am not working on show pieces.

With my next round of painting I am going to paint the horses separate from the riders. The riders will get mostly painted prior to assembling onto the horse. I noticed that assembled riders do not easily attach to the horses and am afraid if glued the attaching pegs on the riders legs will break.

Any thoughts on this?
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Ancestral Hamster
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With light colors over black primer you can paint the light area with white first, then the lighter color. This does not work that well with the typical yellow or red acrylic as they are nearly transparent, but it is usually better than painting those colors over straight black.

Similarly, metallics work better over a black base coat.

If you don't mind springing a little more for paint, get artists acrylics for the lighter colors. They have denser pigmentation, but you'll have to thin it down with water before applying it. Otherwise regular craft acrylics are fine.

There are two rules of thumb which can be useful. However, one must break them as needs dictate.

1. Paint lightest colors first.
2. Paint as if the figure was getting dressed. (i.e. skin, clothes, armor, sashes etc).

Generally, it is easier to hide mistakes with light colors since you can paint the darker colors over them to hide them.

Similarly, items like skin and tunics/padding are small elements that require delicacy. If they splash over while painting you can then paint over mistakes with the later, larger coats.

As for painting prior to assembly, that might be the best approach, but I can't say since I bought my copy today and have just returned home.

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David Boeren
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If you use dark primer, you can paint a layer of any light color to "prep" it before laying down light colors. I prefer a light grey rather than white as white often has poor coverage in acrylics.

Same if you use light primer, you can always put down a layer of a dark color if you need to, although dark colors tend to have good coverage so it's less necessary.

Yellows and reds often have poor coverage, buying better quality paints can help - I've found the Privateer Press P3 paints to have good coverage in these colors. As above, you can help by putting down a similar base color in a "close" shade. Reddish browns cover nicely before reds, a light leather yellow/brown works well before yellows.
 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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I posted some really rough painting tests... Let's see what the Photo Admin has to say...

I am leaving for a business trip and wanted to share before I leave.

Washes and detail have not been applied yet as I was mainly looking at different color schemes and the mixing of paints to find the colors I was looking for.

From the three foot level they look passable.

(My personal rule for gaming with painted miniatures is that a minimum of five colors must be used... Of course I will play a game with any miniatures but my in-progress work will not be fielded until done.)





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