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Subject: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Contest Ready rss

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Nate K
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Welcome!

This is the Work-In-Progress thread for Foothold Enterprises, my first entry to the 2012 Solitaire Print-and-Play Contest. Foothold Enterprises is a solitaire bidding game--which is neat, because I personally haven't seen that done yet.

In Foothold Enterprises, you are a young entrepreneur trying to get your startup company going. You have a limited amount of time to see a return on your investments. Buy advertising, win over clients, and put your company on the map!


What It Is

The game is designed to be playable while standing in line. It consists of a 54-card deck and a money tracker card. You will also need a paper clip to attach to the money tracker card.

Those who have played Zed Deck or Lord of the Rings: The Adventure Deck Game will be familiar with the game mechanics.

Each turn, you flip up the top card of the deck. The card has three aspects on which you can bid: an ability, victory points, or money. You select which aspect for which you would like to bid, then decide how much of your money you bid. Then you reveal a number of cards from the top of the deck as directed by the card you flipped. You add up the money value of the revealed cards to determine the game's bid. If your bid was equal to or less than the game's, you lose. Otherwise, you win the bid!

The game continues until the deck runs out of cards. You then add up your Victory Points to see how well you did!


Where You Can Find It

The Cards v2.3

The Rules

Please let me know if the links are not working!



How You Can Contribute

--Read the rules! If there are any glaring errors or omissions, please let me know!

--Check out the cards! They are now colorblind-friendly, but I'd like some constructive criticism on the new icons. Also, let me know if they are legible.

--Help me brainstorm! While I enjoy the game as-is, I am extremely willing to make alterations to improve, alter, or integrate the theme.

--Print the game! Let me know if it prints funny, or if there are errors in the pdfs.

--Play the game! If it's fun, great! Tell me what you liked about it. If it's not, also great! Give me constructive feedback on what wasn't working for you.


What You Can Get

While I do not have an infinite supply of GeekGold, I will try my best to give a fair tip for your advice, feedback, criticism, or playtesting reports.

Additionally, playtesters will receive credit in the finalized rulebook.

Finally, you could earn yourself a new mate! I'm very friendly, and I try my best to repay those who have helped me by, for example, playtesting their designs for them.

Thank you so much!
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todd sanders
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
be interested to see what you do with the 'in hand' game idea. i'd like to go back and develop more games like the one i did, again
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Jessey
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Colour blind recommendation:

Come up with a name for each colour of card. Then, instead of having the cards be coloured, have a symbol to represent each type displayed and references to 'red' change to that symbol. The Symbol could be what the money value is kept within.

Ideas for symbols:

Red = Circle
Blue = Box
Yellow = Star

This also lowers ink requirements as you would be able to make black and
white graphics!

You could use more themey symbols, like a Piggy Bank, but beyond that one I don't have any ideas
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
dumarest123 wrote:
be interested to see what you do with the 'in hand' game idea. i'd like to go back and develop more games like the one i did, again


Jeez, you're fast, Todd.

The game mostly works very well while holding it in your hands, as you are essentially just moving cards from the top of the deck to the bottom. Holding and adjusting the money tracker can be a little difficult for the less-dexterous of us, but even someone like me can manage it, so I imagine that someone who works with his or her hands would have no trouble.
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todd sanders
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
not as fast as you

yes the manipulation of the deck is the big issue isn't it. i found out while doing new world colony that there was a more efficient way to hold the deck than i first thought
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Candi wrote:
Colour blind recommendation:

Come up with a name for each colour of card. Then, instead of having the cards be coloured, have a symbol to represent each type displayed and references to 'red' change to that symbol. The Symbol could be what the money value is kept within.

Ideas for symbols:

Red = Circle
Blue = Box
Yellow = Star

This also lowers ink requirements as you would be able to make black and
white graphics!

You could use more themey symbols, like a Piggy Bank, but beyond that one I don't have any ideas


This is definitely something I considered, especially because the game currently requires more ink than I would like. Two birds, one stone. I'll tinker with it tomorrow and see if I can come up with something I like.
 
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Chris Hansen
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
kurthl33t wrote:
You are a young entrepreneur trying to get your company going and start making a profit. You only have a limited amount of time to get into the red.

I think you mean get into the black. Getting into the red is really easy!
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Chad Mestdagh
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Argh!!! Looks like you are using a mechanic that I am using for my game.

Mine is a big adventure game which has a destination number at the bottom of each card.

When you are done with the card that you are currently playing, you draw cards equal to the destination number. These are where the roads lead from your current location and you must choose one of them.

The last card is a big giant dragon that you have to battle.
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Jack Neal
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
I've been skeptical of stand-in-line games, but this one may very well get me out of my shell...
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Kyle Currie
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
I won't lie Nate, the theme doesn't appeal to me too much here. BUT. That really doesn't matter, because I admire you too much as a designer to turn down anything you try your hand at! It'll be cool to see where this goes
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
chansen2794 wrote:
kurthl33t wrote:
You are a young entrepreneur trying to get your company going and start making a profit. You only have a limited amount of time to get into the red.

I think you mean get into the black. Getting into the red is really easy!


Whoops. That's what I get for typing this up so late!
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
radchad wrote:
Argh!!! Looks like you are using a mechanic that I am using for my game.

Mine is a big adventure game which has a destination number at the bottom of each card.

When you are done with the card that you are currently playing, you draw cards equal to the destination number. These are where the roads lead from your current location and you must choose one of them.

The last card is a big giant dragon that you have to battle.


Don't worry about it, I think there's a lot that can be done with this mechanic. Your theme is certainly a lot more appealing than mine
 
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Raiderjakk wrote:
I've been skeptical of stand-in-line games, but this one may very well get me out of my shell...


Thanks! It also works well while in a car (but not driving!) or on a plane, since there's little to no footprint.
 
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Elyklord wrote:
I won't lie Nate, the theme doesn't appeal to me too much here. BUT. That really doesn't matter, because I admire you too much as a designer to turn down anything you try your hand at! It'll be cool to see where this goes


I appreciate that! It's true that this isn't my normal sort of game--I'm usually a lot more theme-driven--but the game just popped into my head last Tuesday morning. I'm now eyeballing it for ways to better integrate the theme. For example, instead Victory Points, you could be purchasing Acres, or Businesses, or something a little more concrete and thematic.
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Jessey
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
kurthl33t wrote:

I appreciate that! It's true that this isn't my normal sort of game--I'm usually a lot more theme-driven--but the game just popped into my head last Tuesday morning. I'm now eyeballing it for ways to better integrate the theme. For example, instead Victory Points, you could be purchasing Acres, or Businesses, or something a little more concrete and thematic.


How about something like Clients or Reputation or Advertising? A big part of getting a business of the ground is getting your name out there and building a stable client base (or at least building a strong positive reputation and gaining notoriety).
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Candi wrote:
kurthl33t wrote:

I appreciate that! It's true that this isn't my normal sort of game--I'm usually a lot more theme-driven--but the game just popped into my head last Tuesday morning. I'm now eyeballing it for ways to better integrate the theme. For example, instead Victory Points, you could be purchasing Acres, or Businesses, or something a little more concrete and thematic.


How about something like Clients or Reputation or Advertising? A big part of getting a business of the ground is getting your name out there and building a stable client base (or at least building a strong positive reputation and gaining notoriety).


Clients. I like it. And abilities could be advertising.... Thanks, Jessey!
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W Retert
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
I like the auction mechanic for this game, although I think it would be nice if the in-game value of a given card wasn't static.


Two questions from reading the rules:

1) What is the benefit of auctioning for money? It appears you can get more money while burning fewer cards by repeated "No Contest"s.

2) How does the "[color] cards that you won for abilities may also count as VP at the end of the game." ability work? How can you tell which cards were won for abilities?

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Grégory Guazzelli
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Nate,

I can make a Vassal Game Module for this P&p ... Just contact me by Geekmail ...

Regards,

Grégory
www.VassalFactory
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Krikkit wrote:
I like the auction mechanic for this game, although I think it would be nice if the in-game value of a given card wasn't static.


Two questions from reading the rules:

1) What is the benefit of auctioning for money? It appears you can get more money while burning fewer cards by repeated "No Contest"s.

2) How does the "[color] cards that you won for abilities may also count as VP at the end of the game." ability work? How can you tell which cards were won for abilities?



1) The "No Contest" rule is new, and might be too easy to abuse; still need to test it. (I'm considering forcing the player to dump an additional card or two from the top of the deck if they declare No Contest, to create some sort of penalty.) Bidding for money gains you additional money on top of your $2 a turn, since you don't have to pay if you win the bid. It's basically "if you have money, you can get more money." Useful if you only have a small amount of cash. I never really bid on money if I have 8+ dollars.

2) I thought I'd put this one in the Card Abilities section, but perhaps I missed it. If you won a card for abilities, you place it face-up at the bottom of the deck with the ability text visible. That is your Active Ability. When the game ends, you know for a fact that you won it for its ability. The tricky part comes when you bid and win a new ability. What do you do with the previous ability? Just push it down into the deck so it's not visible? The works for normal games, but what do you do if you then get an ability like the one you pointed out?

Honestly, I haven't managed to get this card in testing, yet, so I have no good answers. When I designed the ability, I assumed that I would just flip the card upside down (like the VP cards) after I used the ability, but that doesn't necessarily work if you have previously won other cards for their abilities. Any suggestions? Is there a way to make this ability work in this game?
 
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
You could turn that card sideways and have it stick out the side then have them read "(Red) cards you win for ability count as VP when used" and have it apply only to abilities of matching colour after you get that one.

Essentially, my suggestion is to have a 'second ongoing ability' spot, which is a card turned sideways sticking out and have it used for this particular type of Ability (ongoing affects that apply to abilities) then have it only apply to Abilities acquired in the future (otherwise it could be a huge point swing if you win that as your last card and get to claim as VP every Ability you ever had!).

Then you could do exactly what you were thinking - when the card is active any ability you get, when used or replaced, just gets 'mutated into VP'
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready

Or place all ability cards sideways; when you get a new one, slide it in front of the old one, which is still sideways.
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Right, here's a visually updated version of the game. It's more printer-friendly and uses icons and phraseology that (hopefully) convey the theme a little better:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_TSzVP-wMZDTDg1RkVGOFlkNHc/...
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
I played 4 games of this last night using a makeshift (office paper) copy. I did not try it standing up, and I bent the rules slightly by keeping separate stacks for abilities and points (er, advertising and clients).

The game played smoothly and was fun. Some thoughts:
- Abilities (advertising) seemed underpowered. They were seldom worth spending money for; the exception being general purpose abilities early in the game. Use-once abilities seem very not-worthwhile.
- Bidding for cash was almost too safe; you can always bid all your cash. As a result, I found it useful to always maintain a cash reserve, then bid selectively for points.
- Every card has a fixed bid value in all three characteristics. With experience with the deck, it should be possible to fix an intrinsic value to each card. Skipping most of the deck helps prevent familiarity, but I'd like to see some way for either the player's or the A.I.'s value of a card to change over the course of a game. (Advertising is actually an example of something whose value to the player changes -- a bonus points ability will be more attractive at the end of the game than the beginning; a bonus to income will have the opposite effect.)
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
Krikkit wrote:
I played 4 games of this last night using a makeshift (office paper) copy. I did not try it standing up, and I bent the rules slightly by keeping separate stacks for abilities and points (er, advertising and clients).

The game played smoothly and was fun.


Fabulous! Thanks, Krikkit.

Quote:
Some thoughts:
- Abilities (advertising) seemed underpowered. They were seldom worth spending money for; the exception being general purpose abilities early in the game. Use-once abilities seem very not-worthwhile.


Good, that's what my testing has shown, as well. I need to de-value some of the abilities, particularly the one-shot advertising.

Quote:
- Bidding for cash was almost too safe; you can always bid all your cash. As a result, I found it useful to always maintain a cash reserve, then bid selectively for points.


I've been doing the same thing. Does this take away from the game at all? I feel like it provides a good incentive to not bid all your money on advertising or clients.

Quote:
- Every card has a fixed bid value in all three characteristics. With experience with the deck, it should be possible to fix an intrinsic value to each card. Skipping most of the deck helps prevent familiarity, but I'd like to see some way for either the player's or the A.I.'s value of a card to change over the course of a game. (Advertising is actually an example of something whose value to the player changes -- a bonus points ability will be more attractive at the end of the game than the beginning; a bonus to income will have the opposite effect.)


I'm not overly concerned about this right now, simply because it would take a lot of playing or a complex mathematical formula to assign a proper value to all the different aspects of all the cards. The fact that you can never be sure exactly how much the game will bid against you should help alleviate the problem somewhat. ("Dang, I pulled a 4 and a 3. I really thought I had this one!") That being said, it's definitely something to look into once other aspects of the design have been smoothed out.

Thanks for trying it out!
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Re: WIP - Foothold Enterprises [PnP Solitaire 2012] Components Ready
kurthl33t wrote:

Quote:
- Bidding for cash was almost too safe; you can always bid all your cash. As a result, I found it useful to always maintain a cash reserve, then bid selectively for points.


I've been doing the same thing. Does this take away from the game at all? I feel like it provides a good incentive to not bid all your money on advertising or clients.


My only concern would be if the incentive is too strong; is never bidding all your money always best? There is some incentive to not bid all your money anyway, as another auction is always coming.

Quote:

Quote:
- Every card has a fixed bid value in all three characteristics. With experience with the deck, it should be possible to fix an intrinsic value to each card. Skipping most of the deck helps prevent familiarity, but I'd like to see some way for either the player's or the A.I.'s value of a card to change over the course of a game. (Advertising is actually an example of something whose value to the player changes -- a bonus points ability will be more attractive at the end of the game than the beginning; a bonus to income will have the opposite effect.)


I'm not overly concerned about this right now, simply because it would take a lot of playing or a complex mathematical formula to assign a proper value to all the different aspects of all the cards. The fact that you can never be sure exactly how much the game will bid against you should help alleviate the problem somewhat. ("Dang, I pulled a 4 and a 3. I really thought I had this one!") That being said, it's definitely something to look into once other aspects of the design have been smoothed out.


You don't know exactly what the game's bid will be, but it only has three basic valuations: 2 cards, 3 cards, and 4 cards. Further, you know exactly which value the game has assigned each aspect of each card. Working out a complex formula wouldn't really change that. It would just ensure that the game's valuation more correctly matched the player's utility.

But take a 12-Client card. I know what that's worth to me, the player---12 victory points. I also know what it's worth to the game---4 cards drawn. And both of these values are fixed.

But consider the same card with Knizia scoring (only count the VP for the type of card you have the fewest VP of). Now the card may be worth 12 clients to me---if, say, I don't have any other VPs of that type. It might be worth nothing---if I have piles of cards of that type. Or, it might be worth some value in between---if taking it changes which type of card I have the fewest points in. The value of the card to me changes depending on which other cards I have scored.

I wouldn't use Knizia scoring here; it pushes for balanced scoring in a way that I don't think fits the game. It does illustrate a way in which values can be made to change.

Quote:

Thanks for trying it out!


It's a fun game. I'm enjoying playing it.
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