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Subject: Gateway to what next? rss

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Jim Cote
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Goa
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Joe Brown
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Powergrid
 
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Damien Seb. ●leoskyangel●
Malaysia
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I play games not to win, it's the gathering that's important - Thanks for the tip Cate108!
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These are just my opinions...

Pillars depth/complexity is rather different than the rest in the list. It's somewhat a little lighter.

I enjoy and love Le Havre and I think you owe Ora et Labora a look as they have been compared side-by-side a lot. Since that you're going to play mainly with two, I'd say go with Le Havre (but still, you must check out Ora too ) as the downtime can be minimize. There's no wrong playing Le Havre with two, but it can be a little lengthty unless all are experienced players. As for Ora, it's pretty fast (my 4 player game clocks in 100-140mins) even with 4. Competition/conflict in both games isn't too much either. It boils down to who gets to build the building first (given that both parties are interested in that one building), who grabs the resources first and maybe blocking another player from using a building. I think the new reprint of Le Havre is widely available now.

As for Caylus, I haven't try it with two, but I can imagine that it works just fine.

No idea about Urban Sprawl. I heard that it's too random for that level of complexity.

If you're looking at Pillars, may I suggest you to look at World Without End too. I like World Without End just a little more because it's a little unforgiving (but still like both).

Other games that you might wanna look at:
- Navegador
= if you haven't try the rondel mechanic, this one can be a good start. It's great with two but I can see that it becomes a little samey after a while (just my opinion). I try to alternate playing it with more players so to fix that.

- The Castles of Burgundy
= haven't try, but I am going to, this week. I heard it's a multiplayer solitare and no idea about the complexity/depth.
- Troyes

- London
= excellent with two. The game can stretch up to 120 mins even with two-player as you need to finish the whole deck to trigger the end game. Multiplayer-solitaire, with a little interaction/conflict on the main board

- The Princes of Florence
= I'd say this has the same depth as Pillars. A classic game by Wolfgang

- Tikal
= another strategy game that I love from Wolfgang. This game is prone to AP players but I don't really care about that.

Let us know what you're getting yeah.
- Damien

EDIT: check out Puerto Rico too, almost forgot about this one. It's great even with two.
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HenningK
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I actually like the cover art on Caylus. But like it or not, the game is awesome! It's not really more complex or hard to get than 7 Wonders if you have somebody explaining it to you. It's very deep, offers high replayability, multiple strategies, and it is excellent with 2 players.

Stone Age has similar mechanics, but is definitely easier to grasp. It fits right into your other games and is great fun in itself, and it looks pretty. I prefer the higher depth of Caylus myself, but this is a very good introductory worker placement game. It's also shorter than Caylus.
This is about as complex as The Pillars of the Earth, but I definitely prefer Stone Age, as I think it is more elegant and offers more interesting decisions.

Puerto Rico has been the top-rated game for eons here for a reason. It is very deep and highly replayable because you never seem to be able to do everything you wanted. Before your engine really gets going, the game is always over, prompting you to play again and try different stuff.

Power Grid is a very good economic game, though its final phase is always over too quickly somehow. Also, it loses a lot of its fun with only 2 players.
 
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Jason Hinchliffe
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Well, seeing as you said you're looking for a step UP in complexity, a lot of the suggestions here need to be ignored. It all would have been much easier had you not said "Race for the Galaxy etc...". Up until that point everything you had mentioned was typical gateway fare, but RftG is an animal of a different stripe.

Personally, I see RftG the same way as I see Puerto Rico (how ironic I know!), which is as a gateway to legitimately complex games.

Based on your feedback, I think you've already answered your own question with "Le Havre". Power Grid is also good, but I don't really see it as "more complex" than RftG.

My votes would go to one of those two. Caylus is a great game, but a bit dry by comparison.

All that said, I'd look to see of there's some way you can get a game inn first before you buy.
 
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Damien Seb. ●leoskyangel●
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I play games not to win, it's the gathering that's important - Thanks for the tip Cate108!
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kidcallow wrote:
Thanks all.

After reading your responses, I decided to go with Puerto Rico for my next purchase. I like San Juan, and now that I know two player works, I'm all about it.

I knew it would be available, and some say Power Grid is a bit wonky with two. Navagador and Goa are definitely on the list.

I went to my FLGS, and my entire plan went out the window. They had a stack of new Sentinels of the Multiverse games just sitting there, and I just couldn't help myself. Co-op and super heroes? There's my kryptonite, it seems.

Thanks again for the feedback. This place rocks.


Thanks for the update Ryan. Great choices you have there.
Happy Gaming!
- Damien
 
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