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No Retreat! The Russian Front» Forums » General

Subject: Geez! This is not a light wargame at all. rss

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Thomas Koba
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I thought this would be a light wargame. Easy to learn. But reading the rulebook, it seems very complicated, with alot of exceptions and things to remember.

Looks good though, but I thought that I would be racing through the rulebook, as I've played a couple of wargames before. Including ASL.

I've read the VP movements and scoring procedures a couple of times, and I must say, I have not the faintest idea, on how it works.

Hmm...hope it sorts itself out when I start playing.
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O B
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Don't give up hope! The game is actually quite easy and the handful of exceptions (while sadly fiddly IMO) are thankfully few and simple enough that you can make a single page printout to keep them in view.

VP calculation is horrendously hard to comprehend, but actually quite easy to play.

First off just ignore the complicated stuff like who has initiative or high tide and play the scenarios which do very straightforward VP scoring.

Despite it's flaws this is a terrific, fun, fast-playing and actually quite straightforward game that you won't be sorry to have learned!
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Jan van der Laan
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adorablerocket wrote:
Don't give up hope! The game is actually quite easy and the handful of exceptions (while sadly fiddly IMO) are thankfully few and simple enough that you can make a single page printout to keep them in view.

VP calculation is horrendously hard to comprehend, but actually quite easy to play.

First off just ignore the complicated stuff like who has initiative or high tide and play the scenarios which do very straightforward VP scoring.

Despite it's flaws this is a terrific, fun, fast-playing and actually quite straightforward game that you won't be sorry to have learned!

I couldn't agree more! There are a few innovative concepts (counterblows and counterattacks for instance) but once these concepts are mastered NR! is a truefully outstanding game. The limited amount of counters and the simple yet crisp and clear (and beautiful) map make this game very playable (and because of the addition of the handcards also very replayable). Don't get upset by the seemingly complicated rules, just look at the play examples in the playbook and everything falls in place.
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Pone McPoneface
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I think if you stick with it you will find it a rewarding experience. My gaming partner and I started playing and started over after turn 18. We declared this first game a learning experience and I think we have a good grasp of the rules now. We had overlooked and misplayed a number of rules but still had a fun time with it. Here's some tips to keep in mind when you start;

-Be sure to download the 2nd edition rules as there are clarification and beginning of the game changes.

-At the beginning of the game German player draws 6 cards and discards 2. This is a turn 1 event only.

-During winter and long winter turns the German player uses the Soviet combat table.

-Supply for cities is different than for units. Units must trace to cities and be within 4 hexes, cities trace to the edge of the board an unlimited number of hexes.

-Soviet player can not discard a card to upgrade units, with the exception of forts, until turn 17. You can only flip your units to their red side by utilizing the free education and a few cards that will allow this.

-German player can not discard a card to recover step losses or bring back eliminated units until turn 5.

-Counter Blow results in combat are always placed by the attacking(phasing) player, even if the CB results occurs from a counter attack result.

-the last card played always supersedes the previous card played.

Out of fairness to the game designer, No Retreat was not intended to be a simple game, but rather a more accessible, less counter dense treatment of the Eastern Front conflict.
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Troy Creamer
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I couldn't agree more about your experience I thought this was going to be a little easier to pick up and so far its been one of the toughest games for me to grasp. However what i probably need to do is just setup a game and start playing a bit solo.
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Carl Paradis
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Pone4games wrote:
Out of fairness to the game designer, No Retreat was not intended to be a simple game, but rather a more accessible, less counter dense treatment of the Eastern Front conflict.


yes, this is exaclty right. My target "audience" for the GMT edition was experienced gamers that wanted a quick but "deep" game about the Easter Front. I never intended for people to play this as their frist "hex and counter" game! I was supriosed that some did, and played it without too many problems.

Do knwo that the original 1st edition game published in 2008 by Victory point Games was much smaller and far less complicated.

And here is a scoop:

i plan to do yet another version of the game. This one will be intended for first-time wargamers, and will be very, very easy to play. Expect too hear about it next September. modest
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Cracky McCracken
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gecko1919 wrote:
I couldn't agree more about your experience I thought this was going to be a little easier to pick up and so far its been one of the toughest games for me to grasp. However what i probably need to do is just setup a game and start playing a bit solo.


That's all you need to do to learn any wargame. Set it up and start making mistakes. It will all come together and seem simple after a while.
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Ryan Nip
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licinius wrote:
And here is a scoop:

i plan to do yet another version of the game. This one will be intended for first-time wargamers, and will be very, very easy to play. Expect too hear about it next September. modest


Yeah!!
Can't wait to see your new production!
Looking forward to it! cool
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Carl Paradis
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free_planet wrote:
Yeah!!
Can't wait to see your new production!
Looking forward to it! cool


Thanks. The game will use the first VPG edition "smaller map" (but not the graphics!), and will end in December 1944, also like the first VPG bversion of the game.

The units will be the ame counters, but you will not have the exact same type of hexes: instead you will use larger hex/areas: those larger terrain features will include one regular hex, plus opart of the 6 surrounding hexes (representing the ZOCs in the original game). Cannot give you more details, it's still in the making.
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Stig Morten
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WIll it be published by GMT or VPG?
 
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Carl Paradis
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ad79 wrote:
WIll it be published by GMT or VPG?


VPG
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Nate Milbrath
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This was also my first real wargame as well. I thought it would be on the easier side since it was rated on the low end of medium difficulty. The first dive into the rule book was a daunting experience to say the least. I mostly understood everything but I couldn't put 2 and 2 together. A lot of wargame lingo was used and it was hard to follow along without fully understanding what the terms meant.

After a few videos being watched, part of a game played and me going on my fourth re-reading of the rulebook, I feel much more confident in the rules. It doesn't seem like a hard game to understand once you get into it. The hardest part I had with the rules was the EZOC and Supply Lines. I just couldn't figure out the 4 spaces until I actually set up the example in the rulebook. I think I also read too much into EZOC to realize that the friendly units in a EZOC only ignore that _single_ hex instead of nullifying any overlapped hexes in tracing back supply lines.

All in all I'm glad I started with this game. I feel like it presented a lot of mechanics that are widely used in wargames and I feel much more confident in picking up an even more complex game once I got this game down. Thanks to Carl Paradis for an amazing game. I really can't wait to play this more.
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Neil Moore
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I'm glad its not just me then. I've set this puppy up an scratched my head an walked away a couple of times now. An I've been playing wargames since I first cut my teeth on TRC as a kid, including a fairly serious tilt at ASL for a few years! So I'm feelin kinda blonde on this one but reading these posts (including the tips on what to concentrate on initially) gives me heart. I'll have another crack tomorrow an see if I can finally groc it. I have extremely high hopes for it..
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