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Subject: Small world question regarding ready your troops phase :) rss

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Miki Chan
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Throughout playing first game last night I had little question about readying your troops phase that if there is only one race token on each of my region so that there is no extra token to take onto my hand, can I just skip readying your troop phase and score victory points and end the turn? or somehow do I need to take race tokens(clearing the region) back to my hand and conquest or need to go in decline?.
 
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Joseph
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Yes, you can skip conquest and just score.

On a related note, this might be the time to consider going into decline.
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Pokey 64
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ElCid91 wrote:
Yes, you can skip conquest and just score.


Not correct. You don't skip anything. You have two choices. Conquer a region or go into decline.

Not only the rulebook for Small World but now also the rules for Small World Underground say exactly the same thing regarding this question. Exactly the same!

The rule, verbatim, both rulebooks, reads:

"During his turn, each player must now either:

Expand the reach of his race through new conquests OR put his race in decline to select a new one."

You're welcome.

Don't forget to punch the red X button!

Thanks again.
 
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Adam H
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I'm interested to see where this conversation goes - I was under the impression that you could just keep your race "as is" also, but I completely see the point about the rulebook saying you must either expand through conquest or go into decline.

Interestingly, under the instructions for going into decline it says (emphasis mine): "Once a player thinks that his Active race is overextended and no longer has the impetus required to continue expanding successfully or defend itself from increasingly threatening neighbors, he may choose to put it In Decline by selecting a new Race and Special Power combo from those available on the table at the start of his next turn." Which implies it is always a choice and not meant to be compulsory.

Should it indeed be compulsory, what would happen if you had one remaining available race token in hand after leaving one in each region and decided to expand, but when you rolled the conquest die you came up short? You just failed to expand your empire, but you also didn't go into decline, which means you just created a third scenario that shouldn't exist: doing nothing. Which makes me think there should have been a provision for this in the rulebook (such as an "auto decline" or a minimum number of race tokens to take the option of expansion) if it was meant to be truly an "either expand or decline" situation.

Where the game rules originally written in English, or translated to it? I wonder if this is an example of vagueness in translation.

Edit: Clarified a sentence...twice.
 
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Danny O'Donnell
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Pseudacris wrote:
I'm interested to see where this conversation goes - I was under the impression that you could just keep your race "as is" also, but I completely see the point about the rulebook saying you must either expand through conquest or go into decline.

Interestingly, under the instructions for going into decline it says (emphasis mine): "Once a player thinks that his Active race is overextended and no longer has the impetus required to continue expanding successfully or defend itself from increasingly threatening neighbors, he may choose to put it In Decline by selecting a new Race and Special Power combo from those available on the table at the start of his next turn." Which implies it is always a choice and not meant to be compulsory.

Should it indeed be compulsory, what would happen if you had one remaining available race token in hand after leaving one in each region and decided to expand, but when you rolled the conquest die you came up short? You just failed to expand your empire, but you also didn't go into decline, which means you just created a third scenario that shouldn't exist: doing nothing. Which makes me think there should have been a provision for this in the rulebook (such as an "auto decline" or a minimum number of race tokens to take the option of expansion) if it was meant to be truly an "either expand or decline" situation.

Where the game rules originally written in English, or translated to it? I wonder if this is an example of vagueness in translation.

Edit: Clarified a sentence...twice.


This conversation has gone several times already, and has generally ended with clarification from Days of Wonder that you do not, in fact, have to conquer additional regions if you don't wish to decline. Pokey remains unconvinced by them and continues to present his understanding as the obvious and only interpretation of the rules.
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Aaron Bohm
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panzer6 wrote:
The rule, verbatim, both rulebooks, reads:

"During his turn, each player must now either:

Expand the reach of his race through new conquests OR put his race in decline to select a new one."

You're welcome.

Don't forget to punch the red X button!

Thanks again.


While it's true that the rulebook does say this verbatim, I doubt that is the "spirit" of the rule and the main reason for the phrasing was to give players a sense of what they should do, not what they must do.

The language in the following section is by far more passive:

Leaving in place one race token in each Region they ocupy, the player may take all his other Active Race tokens from the map back in his hand and use them to conquer new regions.


If a player wishes to free up some more Race tokens, he may opt to entirely empty up some - or all -Regions, leaving no tokens there...


Once a player thinks that his Active race is over-extended... he may choose to pit it in Decline...

So I would say go ahead and feel free that you can just let a race sit and gather VPs. In fact, if you have a decent spead of both your declined and active races, this is sometimes the best option.
 
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Matthew M
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Out of curiosity - how does the Small World app handle this issue? I don't think anything could be more definitive than how DoW themselves enforce the rules in their own app.
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Miki Chan
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I`d appreciate for all of your answers and replies. The questions came out when I was playing the last round of small world last night.

We were on the last round and my active race was sorcerers which was occupying several or many regions with only one race token. And it was worthless to collect any sorcerers race tokens and conquest more regions

since all of my regions were occupied by only one sorcerer but rule book didn`t have any clarification about "not readying troops" so I was just wondering then do I need to still collect my race tokens or should go in decline.
 
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Richard Smeltzer
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in4kee wrote:
We were on the last round and my active race was sorcerers which was occupying several or many regions with only one race token. And it was worthless to collect any sorcerers race tokens and conquest more regions

Worthless? Even if you pick up just one token you can roll to see if you can conquer somewhere. Okay, that leaves you more vulnerable, but what the heck? It's the last round.
 
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Miki Chan
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Yes I wouldn`t wanna do anything cause it`s the last round. Lets say if I wanna clear one region and use that one race token to conquest one more region by rolling dice, and what if If I fail then it means I just lost one region(one victory point) for nothing.
 
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Greg Wilson
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Is it worth pointing out the French rules explicitly phrase expansion as a choice? The same section as above reads:

Rules wrote:
À son tour, un joueur peut:
Déployer/Poursuivre l'expansion de son Peuple actif en s’emparant éventuellement de nouvelles régions
OU
Faire passer son Peuple en déclin pour en choisir un nouveau à la place.


which translates to:

Rules wrote:
On his turn, a player may:
Deploy/continue the expansion of his active race, possibly seizing new regions
OR
Put his race into decline in order to choose a new one in its place


Eh, probably not. Bottom line is that everyone agrees there's no imperative to increase the number of regions you control on an 'expansion/conquest' turn, except for one very vocal BGG poster.

Forced expansion doesn't even make sense given the random factor in conquest. What happens if you choose to take a conquest turn and then fail to increase your holdings? Do you have to backtrack and go into decline instead?
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Jesse Rasmussen
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Octavian wrote:
Out of curiosity - how does the Small World app handle this issue? I don't think anything could be more definitive than how DoW themselves enforce the rules in their own app.


The App lets you stay on the board as long as you want. Even if you have race tokens to continue conquering, you can just go right into the Redeploy phase.

I agree that there isn't anything more clear than DoW enforcing the rules as they were meant to be...and from the App it's clear that you don't ever have to go into decline if you don't want to. cool
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Angelus Seniores
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historically, one could argue that if a race doesnt show its strength by conquering regions, that its people will regard their leaders as weak therefore abandoning them ie go into decline.
You have to keep the morale of the population high or they will abandon you, which might lead you to a simple choice: do nothing and decline or try to do something/anything just to keep from declining even if it means doing a wrong thing (like abandoning a region and not being able to retake another one to replace it).

so I feel that both interpretations are viable
 
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